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AndyBees
Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2008
Posts: 2331
Location: Southeast Kentucky
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 Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:41 am Post subject: Re: Diesel Conversion Question - Apologies in Advance |
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| rmcd wrote: |
Please excuse me if this question is more appropriate for a new thread. I recall folks having issues with fueling after running out of fuel. I recall issues with bubbles in the line and not priming properly. The solution in some discussion was about installing an inline fuel pump between the tank and the fuel filter. I cant seem to find the bookmark. Sorry.
What pump would you recommend? I understand there are different types of pumps.
I recall some folks have it switched in the bay? |
First, don't run out of fuel...........
If there are bubbles in the fuel line, most likely there is a leak, i.e., the IP is sucking air. However, my 2000 Jetta has always shown a few air bubbles n the clear line from the filter to the IP. It now has 360k miles and no issues with the bubbles.
Beginning with the BEW engine (2004), there is a "lift pump" located in the tank. Some folks have adapted it to the earlier models (discussed in the TDI Club).
I'm not aware of a "particular" or "preferred" in-line pump. However, others may know. Go to the TDI Club and lurk or search. There will be lots of info on the topic of air bubbles in the fuel line.
_________________
'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003. |
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Zeitgeist 13
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Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: Diesel Conversion Question - Apologies in Advance |
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I believe the Facet cube-type pumps are free flowing, so you can run them inline and just wire them to a switch for temporary use when servicing the fuel system.
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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iliketowalk
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Joined: April 29, 2011
Posts: 614
Location: Northern CA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: Diesel Conversion Question - Apologies in Advance |
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After I replaced my IP I had a helluva time getting it started and primed... Replaced all lines, copper washers, and used oetiker pinch clamps on everything and now it will self prime a dry fuel filter or the line after servicing the tank in seconds. I don't imagine running out would be any worse.
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1986 Weekender "Birch" |
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rmcd
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Joined: October 29, 2010
Posts: 1349
Location: PNW - its a dry rain.
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AndyBees
Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2008
Posts: 2331
Location: Southeast Kentucky
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: Diesel Conversion Question - Apologies in Advance |
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One problem I've had and could be partially solved with the Facet Pump, relates to an aftermarket fuel tank.
I purchased a fuel tank off eBay when my OE tank repair never turned out satisfactorily.
Anyway, my fueling system has sucked air when the tank is low on fuel... 1 to 2 gallons left in the tank. It happens going though curves up hill. I've had it to happen twice. The first time involved filling the filter a couple of times and bleeding the injectors. The second time I was fortunate that the episode commenced just as I topped the hill. So, it primed itself going over the other side.
So, apparently the pick-up tube is not as close to the bottom of the tank as it should be. Thus, an in-line pump would be of great benefit and cheaper than an OE tank.
_________________
'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003. |
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Mazz
Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2013
Posts: 9
Location: Shropshire, England
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:36 am Post subject: Re: Diesel Conversion Question - Apologies in Advance |
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| mhoffperson wrote: |
| So I'm amazed by where answers to this question have taken me. I want to move forward with a TDI conversion using the FAS 50 degree Install kit. I am still looking for people with real life experience with this kit. I would love to hear from you. |
To try and get back on topic, I thought I'd introduce myself as this is a topic I am both passionate and knowledgeable on, I run a company in the UK that services, maintains restores and importantly here caries out many TDi engine conversions on all VW transporters from 1980 onwards. The engine conversion side of my business has given me a vast knowledge of T3 TDi conversions and the maintenance side gives me a vast knowledge of modern VAG diesels and how a converted T3 drives compared to modern day diesel VW transporters.
To be clear here I have worked with Jon over at FAS a great deal over the last few years, in a effort to combine our knowledge and provide the best all round TDi conversion we can produce. Obviously our main goals have been reliability, simplicity of install and driveability, with the main aim being to develop a complete product.
I'd like to go over a few points in order to address the OP original question.
Reliability. The PD engine was sold in huge numbers over here in Europe with production exceeding any other VAG diesel produced to date, this means both parts availability and reliability of the PD is very proven, with many PD engines covering 300,000 miles with out real issue, These power plants are the engine of choice for Taxi drivers here in the UK, and by a long way have proved to be the most trusted engine used in the VW T5 range with even well abused 1.9 T5s covering 250 to 300,000 miles, they do have one weakness that being camshafts, generally a well looked after 1.9 will need camshaft and followers at 200,000 miles, Changing a camshaft in a PD takes around 3 hours,so in truth it's really not a problem worth worrying about. For most T3/Vanagon owners 200,000 miles could equate to 10 years or more of use, so it's safe to say that a new PD unit is going to give you years of trouble free motoring if properly maintained.
The conversion. Looking at some of the upright conversions here, it's pretty obvious why the 50 degree install wins over the upright conversion. Ground Clarence is near identical to factory install, you can run a 50 degree install on a lowered van with out issue, no need to alter factory gearbox mount, no need to modify your load bed, which on a Westfalia or multivan means your bed is exactly as factory intended it.
It's also worth noting that engineers at VW a company that at the time prided themselves on reliability choose to install the factory inline 4 this way, if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me.
We carry out 50 degree installs using both factory VW diesel set ups and FAS set ups, IMHO the FAS system is far superior to the factory set up, resonance and vibration are notably different with the FAS system, and is a vast improvement over factory JX set up. It also lets you use the PD manifold and turbo set up which works very well on a 50 degree install.
On road performance. A 2wd drive PD set up running a 4.13 diff with taller 5th gear will cruise at 70mph all day in near silence, with a Syncro giving the same level of refinement at 60mph. the kit itself fits perfectly, no filing, grinding or welding as is often the case with many other conversion kits, theses kits fit and work beautifully straight out the box, and you can really tell lot of time and effort has been put into the overall design, many aftermarket kits I have seen over the years seem to focus on the cheapest and easiest way to produce a engine mount, rather than actually focus on design or quality.
The air box location and intercooler location have been a topic of great discussion for myself and Jon over the years with just about every avenue explored. I can safely say fitting the intercooler on the right hand side of vehicle makes absolutely no difference to turbo lag or torque figures whatsoever, we are not building hi performance engines, we are simply taking stock power plants and trying to replicate as closely as possible the factory VW install. Most VAG group vehicles run long intake pipework that easily compares to our set up, personally I prefer the advantages the long intake pipe set up offers, first it reduces resonance as intercooler is better isolated from vehicle body, second fitting any item that resonates inside a box is not a good idea as far as noise is concerned, meaning fitting your intercooler inside the left hand rear air deflector box is going to increase noise intrusion over fitting intercooler in other available engine bay locations. And third by having longer intercooler pipe work we are helping to decrease air intake temps, you will never achieve the ram air effect you get from a front mounted intercooler in a T3, its not possible, the area both myself and Jon fit our intercoolers is proven to be the coolest area of a T3 engine bay, keeping our set ups running near identical air intake temps to factory VW installs and that's all that really matters. The PD engine will start to restrict fuelling and boost at a air intake temps of 80c or above, the most I have ever seen from one of my companies conversions is 60c, it's also worth noting that the extra volume of air stored by having longer pipes can also be beneficial to power output as it acts as a plenum. All this means is in the real world you are not going to notice any difference what so ever to driving experience from having longer intake pipe runs, we have tried various set up's on singular vehicles and never noticed a difference in drive yet apart from a reduction in smoke when using longer intake pipe work.
I have tried to be as informative as possible based on 15 years experience of TDi conversions, I am not basing any of this information on hearsay or carrying out the odd install for my mate, I am simply sharing my experience on this subject based on my experience to date. |
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OddN
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2010
Posts: 690
Location: Northern Norway
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:35 am Post subject: Re: Diesel Conversion Question - Apologies in Advance |
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Mazz, that is some excellent info.
Could you elaborate a little on the cam/follower issue of the PD engine, is there any difference between the 1,9 and the 2,0 or the 8v and the 16v versions? I have read somewhere that there are som other head issues with the 2 liter 16V PD engines...
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1991 VW Multivan syncro 1,9 TD |
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Mazz
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Joined: September 05, 2013
Posts: 9
Location: Shropshire, England
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:31 am Post subject: Re: Diesel Conversion Question - Apologies in Advance |
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The camshaft wear is associated with both the 1.9 and 2.0 8v PD, it caused by the fact VW had to make cam lobes half the width of there usual width to accommodate injector rocker cam lobe, if you have a new engine it's really not worth bothering about as you will get at least 200,000miles out of camshaft, if your fitting a used engine its worthwhile replacing camshaft while your there.
The 2.0 16v PD is a completely different cylinder head and did have problems with internal cracks between water jackets and no 4 exhaust port, but this bears no relevance to the 8v PD unit. |
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MarkWard
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Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17153
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:11 am Post subject: Re: Diesel Conversion Question - Apologies in Advance |
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Mazz Hello, I have a family member asking about installing a TDI in their syncro. I suggested he look at FAS. They also live in New England. They asked if I would be interested in doing the conversion down here in Florida. My one off conversion took forever. A lot of fabrication time was spent. I also spent a lot of time sorting the electrical out. I could do a second one in less time and even less time if I had made jigs and documented the wiring etc.
Here is my question. Since this is a sorted kit, could this conversion be accomplished in a week in a shop with a lift and all the necessary tools on hand? I could spare a week, but beyond that, I don't really have the time to sort it out. Thank you. mark
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Mazz
Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2013
Posts: 9
Location: Shropshire, England
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:57 pm Post subject: Re: Diesel Conversion Question - Apologies in Advance |
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| So long as your van is in good serviceable condition a one week turnaround is very possible, you would need to set aside time to read instaltion manual beforehand, but the FAS kit is so complete that you should comfortably turn the install around in 40 hours. |
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Jeroen_M625
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Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 74
Location: Breda (NL)
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: Diesel Conversion Question - Apologies in Advance |
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| Best tip I can give after a few TDI installations: use a two mass flywheel. It is so much better for your gearbox and comfort. |
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AndyBees
Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2008
Posts: 2331
Location: Southeast Kentucky
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:30 pm Post subject: Re: Diesel Conversion Question - Apologies in Advance |
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Yep, I agree with doing the DMF vs the SM. I've been using the single mass for over 71k miles. There's just way too much rattle for me. I suspect the rattle free (quiet SMF) would be okay as far as noise. But, I think the DMF would be much nicer to the tranny as Jeroen_M625 has suggested.
So, before the winter is over, mine will be getting the DMF package..
_________________
'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003. |
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JDE81
Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2015
Posts: 13
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:06 pm Post subject: Re: Diesel Conversion Question - Apologies in Advance |
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| I haven't seen the EE20 and Boxeer kit mentioned lately and wondering if anyone has the latest on it. It comes in a little less expensive than the Gen V FAS kit, but still not sure about parts availability on the EE20 and ease of install on the kit. Any first hand info would be great! |
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Mazz
Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2013
Posts: 9
Location: Shropshire, England
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 2:21 am Post subject: Re: Diesel Conversion Question - Apologies in Advance |
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You would need strong justification to choose the Subaru Diesel engine over the VW inline 4 diesel, The vag diesel has a reputation unmatched here in Europe for reliability, the Subaru diesel is the polar opposite.
Last edited by Mazz on Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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mhoffperson
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Joined: October 19, 2009
Posts: 39
Location: South Bay
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| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: Diesel Conversion Question - Apologies in Advance |
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| Mazz, thank you for taking the time and responding to my original question. You gave me a lot of information to work with. I also appreciate many of the other responses as they open my eyes to associated issues I had not considered. That's one of the many things I love about this forum. |
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Multiman mv
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Joined: January 24, 2017
Posts: 987
Location: Martha's Vineyard, Ma
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: Diesel Conversion Question - Apologies in Advance |
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| Well, I may not be able to help answer your original question but I have a 91 multivan that just got delivered to foreign auto and supply yesterday for a long awaited tdi install. I am not capable of doing the install so I am paying for professionals to do it right. I will be able to attest to the quality of the install and the parts that FAS uses. These guys are sharp and really know their stuff. If you are considering one of their kits, I would say go for it. I can't imagine a better kit out there. In terms of vibration, I think FAS has really done their homework. It was a big concern of mine. I was up there last September and took a drive in a recently converted Vanagon with a tdi installed and it was smooth as silk. Absolutely no vibration. The hydraulic mounts do their job as advertised. I'll let you know how my conversion turns out. Good luck with yours. |
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Multiman mv
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2017
Posts: 987
Location: Martha's Vineyard, Ma
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: Diesel Conversion Question - Apologies in Advance |
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| Well, I may not be able to help answer your original question but I have a 91 multivan that just got delivered to foreign auto and supply yesterday for a long awaited tdi install. I am not capable of doing the install so I am paying for professionals to do it right. I will be able to attest to the quality of the install and the parts that FAS uses. These guys are sharp and really know their stuff. If you are considering one of their kits, I would say go for it. I can't imagine a better kit out there. I'll let you know how the conversion turns out. Good luck with yours. |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: Diesel Conversion Question - Apologies in Advance |
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Which series TDI are you having installed?
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Multiman mv
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2017
Posts: 987
Location: Martha's Vineyard, Ma
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: Diesel Conversion Question - Apologies in Advance |
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| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
| Which series TDI are you having installed? |
Sorry for the duplicate post. Tried to edit and when I pressed the back button it submitted the post again by mistake. Anyways, FAS is installing the 1.9 pd bsw. I am by no means tdi literate, so I hope this is what you're asking. I wish I knew a lot more about it. I'm a wood and nails guy, home builder, that once drained my transfer case when trying to change the oil in my truck (30 years ago). I've matured only a little since then but my mechanical abilities have evolved very little. Basically, I know when to call in the specialists. Wrenching on my multivan consists of changing out led lights and maybe an occasional window regulator. Engine conversion, definitely not. Much respect for those of you who know how to do something as complicated as a conversion. I've often said that a skilled mechanic has a wide knowledge base comparable to a doctor. My local mechanic is one of the smartest fellas I know. Much respect to you all. |
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Zeitgeist 13
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Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Diesel Conversion Question - Apologies in Advance |
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Sounds very nice. I've never seen any of the FAS installs in person, but I've worked with some of their custom produced products and have tons of respect for their attention to detail. Can't wait to see some pics of your project.
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Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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