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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34021
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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 Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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| Fantastic, ordering in 3---2---1--- |
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nitro_warrior
Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2009
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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Following a long "sabbatical" of a few years I have resembled the fuel system of my 73 fastback. I'm pleased to report after some fiddling it lives!
But the car was a project when I got it and I can't figure out where the Fuel Pressure Regulator should be mounted, at the moment it's hanging loose inline between the engine and where the fuel line runs down the spine. Anyone got some pictures or a description of where it should be? I can't see an obvious mounting point.
Thanks. |
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34021
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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The threaded end goes through a hole in the front tin, right side. A nut is threaded from the other side. Mine often loosens; I'm not sure if it is supposed to have a lock washer or not.
Last edited by KTPhil on Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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nitro_warrior
Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2009
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
| The threaded end goes through a hole in the front tin, right side. A nut is threaded from the other side. Mine often loosen; I'm not sure if it is supposed to have a lock washer or not. |
Ah thanks, will have a look. No harm in fitting a lock washer I suppose. |
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nitro_warrior
Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2009
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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| nitro_warrior wrote: |
| KTPhil wrote: |
| The threaded end goes through a hole in the front tin, right side. A nut is threaded from the other side. Mine often loosen; I'm not sure if it is supposed to have a lock washer or not. |
Ah thanks, will have a look. No harm in fitting a lock washer I suppose. |
The hole still isn't jumping out at me. Excuse the terrible picture below. I would have guessed it should be on the vertical piece of tin, but there's no hole for it. The though crosses my mind that I had to get some extra bits of tin for bits that were missing. Could I have a non fuel injection piece of tin with no hole?
I guess I can just drill my own.
EDIT
Just found this in another thread
| onion456 wrote: |
found this one in the gallery thought it was cool...
i have some stuff on my other computer too ill try n dig it up. |
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=513607 |
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Donnie strickland
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009
Posts: 2403
Location: Moody, AL
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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Here's a quick snap of mine:
_________________
71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback |
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nitro_warrior
Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2009
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:00 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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| Donnie strickland wrote: |
Here's a quick snap of mine:
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Perfect. Many thanks. Think I will need to dig out my drill. |
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Donnie strickland
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009
Posts: 2403
Location: Moody, AL
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:34 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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Looks like you're right, you probably have a non-FI piece of tin. The fuel line on the left side runs through the tin with a rubber grommet. Mine disintegrated when I reinstalled my engine, so I made one with a piece of hose:
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71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback |
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nitro_warrior
Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2009
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:57 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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| Donnie strickland wrote: |
Looks like you're right, you probably have a non-FI piece of tin. The fuel line on the left side runs through the tin with a rubber grommet. Mine disintegrated when I reinstalled my engine, so I made one with a piece of hose:
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Ah, this is all very helpful. Thanks. |
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DSJ1964
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2017
Posts: 38
Location: Upland Ca.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:05 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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Hi, I just purchased a 1970 type 3 with Fuel Injection and automatic trans. I'm new to VW's but been working on cars my whole life. I have a few questions about the performance or lack of it. First off all it's very hard to start when cold, backfires and sputters until it warms up a little. Once it gets running it idles very rough and seems to be on the low side. Upon take off it's really slow until it's about ready to shift into second gear then it kind of takes off.
When you get up to speed it runs decent but has a small stumble once in a while that seems like maybe a vacuum leak.
The car had a valve adjustment, plugs, points cap and rotor last year and has not been driven much since. I have not had time yet to check timing or pull the plugs to see what they look like either, I'm hoping to get some idea of what to look for to make this car run better.
Thank you in advance. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:29 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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| DSJ1964 wrote: |
Hi, I just purchased a 1970 type 3 with Fuel Injection and automatic trans. I'm new to VW's but been working on cars my whole life. I have a few questions about the performance or lack of it. First off all it's very hard to start when cold, backfires and sputters until it warms up a little. Once it gets running it idles very rough and seems to be on the low side. Upon take off it's really slow until it's about ready to shift into second gear then it kind of takes off.
When you get up to speed it runs decent but has a small stumble once in a while that seems like maybe a vacuum leak.
The car had a valve adjustment, plugs, points cap and rotor last year and has not been driven much since. I have not had time yet to check timing or pull the plugs to see what they look like either, I'm hoping to get some idea of what to look for to make this car run better.
Thank you in advance. |
Sounds like you need to check the timing. From the driveability issues, it sounds like it's running retarded (or has no mechanical advance). You're also seeing this at start up (not enough timing advance). D-jet FI engines are very picky/sensitive about timing, as ignition timing is also set to injection timing (injectors are run off the triggers in the base of the distributor).
Personally I'd check the timing, and see where it's at. Static timing is 0 degrees, but put a timing light on and see if it's advancing to 28 degrees.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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DSJ1964
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2017
Posts: 38
Location: Upland Ca.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:00 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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| Thank you Bobnotch, I will start with the timing. Thank you so much for the advice. |
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34021
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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| After the timing is dead on (and advancing properly), then go looking for vacuum leaks. They will make both the tranny and FI work oddly. |
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DSJ1964
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2017
Posts: 38
Location: Upland Ca.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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I checked the timing but I'm not sure where it should be exactly according to the marks, it is advancing properly though I do know that much. Any hints on the best way to set the timing according to the marks? I have seen a few different answers on the topic.
As far as vacuum leaks are concerned, where is the most common places for leaks to occur?
Thanks, |
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34021
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:38 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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| There are a dozen common leak sources. You have to check them all. Runners, injectors, MPS hose, AAR hose, etc. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:04 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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| DSJ1964 wrote: |
I checked the timing but I'm not sure where it should be exactly according to the marks, it is advancing properly though I do know that much. Any hints on the best way to set the timing according to the marks? I have seen a few different answers on the topic.
As far as vacuum leaks are concerned, where is the most common places for leaks to occur?
Thanks, |
It depends on which belt fan you have, as some have different marks from others. If the marks look like this: III, then you'll use the 1st one from the left. But, if they're like this: I III then you'll use the far left for "0", and the next one to the right is 5*. Keep in mind there are other small belt fans with different marks on them too, which is why you really should use a timing light (preferably with a dial back set up).
I hope this helps.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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DSJ1964
Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2017
Posts: 38
Location: Upland Ca.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:14 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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Thanks guys for the help, I now understand the timing marks. I do have a timing light with the dial set up on it so I will be able to check the advance.
After poking around yesterday I checked all the plugs, they looked good and were gapped at .023, not sure if this was correct but I gapped them to .028 per my owners manual. also after a looking I noticed that one of the wires on the four pin connector to the Throttle Position Sensor had broken off, I'm sure that did not help it run very well. I have not traced the air down yet to see what it does but I will repair it soon. Also noticed that the ign points were pitted so I will do a full cap rotor and points change.
I also plan to change all the hoses, fuel and vac as some of them look to be original. 
Thanks agin for your help, I cannot do this alone. |
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stonecoldcars
Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2013
Posts: 265
Location: Oregon
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JSMskater
Samba Grease Gorilla
Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 5362
Location: Murrieta California
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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I don't know of anyone off the top of my head running something like this, but that said, even a finely tuned D-jet engine isn't going to have crazy consistent AFR values, there is going to be a higher degree of variance than literally any modern engine because its an open loop system... I don't think you'll like the results and without making it a closed loop system you'll never achieve consistent afr unless its in steady state conditions like idle or cruise.
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71 Squareback-FI -- 73 Bay (subaru powered)
TOOB Member #3
I make D-jet FI connectors |
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34021
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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I used a different product from them, but it uses the same sensor, so my experience should help you.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=37
I bought a much longer cable so it would reach the dash and not get tangles up, and used the handheld display, not a round gauge. Same info, though, and I believe the same O2 sensor. I left the wiring in place so if I suspect I am out of calibration, I can just swap the resonator out, plug in the gauge and O2 sensor, and take my readings.
It took a lot of trial and error to get idle/cruise/power all calibrated, and I've tweaked it slightly since, but with the sensor bung located in that part of the resonator, I got good, consistent, adjustment-reactive readings.
Thanks to D/A/N for this idea; here is a thread about his setup and the bung location:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636561
And here is his main thread page 81 where he talks about his gauge and settings:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...start=1600 |
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