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Wasted youth Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012 Posts: 5134 Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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grandpa pete wrote: |
Hello telford
Where can I buy film cans like yours to put my screws in ? ...do you have their website
Nice article ; thanks for taking the time to do it |
You will be hard pressed to find the aluminum screw lid 35mm film cans, but you can get today's (yesterday's ??? ) version from B&H Photo in New York. I have spent a lot of money with them:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?=General+Bran...amp;sts=pi
Available in packs of 5 or 25.
And YES! What a great write up. I was actually considering just putting the gas tank back in this week with the dead sender simply because nothing good is available. Thanks for putting this up there! |
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ccpalmer Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2006 Posts: 3850 Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16970 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:30 am Post subject: |
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Yeah - Nice job Telford and Gary but the red lights on all the time would drive me nuts
I just can't figure out what those lights do. They are kind of annoying when you're driving at night. _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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TomWesty Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007 Posts: 3482 Location: Wyoming,USA
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Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:43 am Post subject: |
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aeromech wrote: |
Yeah - Nice job Telford and Gary but the red lights on all the time would drive me nuts
I just can't figure out what those lights do. They are kind of annoying when you're driving at night. |
I just ignore them. After a while, it's like they're not even there. _________________ If you haven't bled on them, you haven't worked on them.
Visit: www.tomcoryell.com and check out my music! |
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telford dorr Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 3555 Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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busdaddy wrote: |
Hmmm...... thirsty |
Actually, about right: (1) first fast run on a new engine (2) at speed on the freeway, using (3) california special low energy fuel. And we don't know where 'full' is yet. _________________ '71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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Wasted youth Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012 Posts: 5134 Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:18 am Post subject: |
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I would just like to pass along that my son and I repaired the sending unit on our 1970 bus using this technique. Filled the tank with five gallons and this is what we got. Looks real good to me. Capacity is about 15 1/2 gallons, so we are just about 1/3 full with five gallons. Pay it no mind about the indicator lamps; we are working through all the electrical right now.
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rennie Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2016 Posts: 246 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:32 pm Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method |
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Great post and step by step instructions! For my splitty, I bought a bay tank with OG VDO gauge. Tested the sender and it gave funky readings.
I then did all the steps of soldering per this post and viola, all good. I tested it by tilting in-hand, then also submersed in water... Ohm readings were consistently around 76.4 empty and 1.6 full.
Flux is key, and be extremely careful with the amazingly fine wires - they're really vulnerable during the process...
Pic of finished job, before I soldered the two other suggested locations:
added pix 7/28/17 Tcash
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buspor63 Samba Member
Joined: February 17, 2005 Posts: 1179 Location: Knoxville,TN Where America stops for gas
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method |
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Is anyone familiar with a situation that the sender is not repairable? I haven't started my repair yet. My wires are intact, but when I opened the tube, a couple of tablespoons of corrosion came out.
My rivet and spring plate wobble around like it's only attached to the top positive post by corrosion. Should I at least get continuity from the bottom rivet and spade connector? Or, is this what this repair does to bypass that connection?
thanks _________________ Imagine that, theres not an "h" in either Westfalia or Syncro? |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51145 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:28 pm Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method |
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The repair shown rectifies a dirty ground which is usually the only problem, in your case if the rivet is loose too then solder it to the washer and spring plate underneath and the terminal on the dry side as well, I've done this to a few and it results in a 100% full reading.
The trick is get the solder to flow and stick before you melt the black plastic that the rivet goes through, usually I have to restrike the rivet a little after to tighten it back up in the body. Prepare yourself for maximum pucker doing that, one slip and those hair wires are done for
Or bypass the rivet and dry side spade and run a second wire from the tab under the rivet on the wet side up through a hole you drill in the body and connect the sender wire to that.
Shine up all the places to solder beforehand with sandpaper to minimize the meltage. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Spike0180 Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015 Posts: 2269 Location: Detroit, Michigan
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:39 pm Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method |
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I used some carbs cleaner to help clean mine up, then sanded and soldered mine. Worked like a charm! Thanks! _________________ Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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telford dorr Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 3555 Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:25 am Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method |
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Keep in mind that it is possible to fill the tank to above the sender (e.g. fill up the fill hose). Thus, any penetrations of the sender need to be fuel-tight. otherwise you have a leak into the tank compartment. _________________ '71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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buspor63 Samba Member
Joined: February 17, 2005 Posts: 1179 Location: Knoxville,TN Where America stops for gas
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Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:16 pm Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method |
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I fixed mine using this thread as a guideline. I by-passed the rivet altogether with silicon insulated wire. It was a really tight fit, so I don't expect much leakage, if any. I should probably fuse it as a safe guard. The ground wire has a ring terminal and will get attached to the same screw as the ground wire going to the body.
_________________ Imagine that, theres not an "h" in either Westfalia or Syncro? |
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Dogo Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2009 Posts: 252 Location: Canada
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:34 am Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method |
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In another write up, which I can't understand (in French), this repair is shown. What's the difference? Is it doing the same thing? Seems like at least you'd avoid tapping the lid.
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51145 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:20 am Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method |
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Dogo wrote: |
In another write up, which I can't understand (in French), this repair is shown. What's the difference? Is it doing the same thing? Seems like at least you'd avoid tapping the lid.
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The pic is too tiny to see exactly what's going on there, but it appears they have soldered the ground to the rivet, that would make the sender read full all the time and take the float out of the picture completely. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Dogo Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2009 Posts: 252 Location: Canada
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:33 am Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method |
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busdaddy wrote: |
Dogo wrote: |
In another write up, which I can't understand (in French), this repair is shown. What's the difference? Is it doing the same thing? Seems like at least you'd avoid tapping the lid.
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The pic is too tiny to see exactly what's going on there, but it appears they have soldered the ground to the rivet, that would make the sender read full all the time and take the float out of the picture completely. |
Really? I can see it in a pretty decent size from here.
There is a lead from the rivet to the tensioner plate |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51145 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:54 am Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method |
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Dogo wrote: |
Really? I can see it in a pretty decent size from here.
There is a lead from the rivet to the tensioner plate |
That's exactly what I thought I saw, but I couldn't beleive my eyes.
The rivet is the sender lead, the tensioner plate is the ground, connecting the 2 bridges the circuit across the potentiometer, might as well ground the sender wire to the body, you'll get the same constantly buried full needle.
The need for the fix arises from a poor contact between the tensioner plate and the sender body (loss of ground), the rivet holds it all together but is through and insulated ferrule in the middle of the tensioner plate so it's isolated from the rest of the sender and can conduct the variable resistance from the other (non ground) end of the hair wire to the gauge terminal. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:33 am Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method |
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This is what I see.
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telford dorr Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 3555 Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method |
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Looks to me that they ran the wire through the rivet - must have drilled a hole through it. See the wire behind the sender?
Seems like too much work to me - not to mention that you now have to ground that wire somewhere.
On the sender mod where the wires come through the lid: I'd blob some fuel-resistant sealer of some kind on those penetrations. Fuel can leak through some mighty tight places, and that area of the sender could be under fuel when the tank is full.
Adding a fuse won't protect you. The fuel gauge current is way too low to blow one. _________________ '71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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Dogo Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2009 Posts: 252 Location: Canada
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:35 am Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method |
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I see what you, Tcash. I guess a lot was lost in translation.
My sender was reading about 3/4 full when in fact it was full.
Took it apart all seems alright, but I now am trying to measure resistance and I get no reading. Wondering if I'm doing it wrong.
Red lead on rivet, black lead on top cast plate.
Am I setting my meter wrong? Bad meter? Bad sender?
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telford dorr Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 3555 Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method |
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Dogo wrote: |
My sender was reading about 3/4 full when in fact it was full. |
Yup - that's the typical sender failure mode symptom.
Quote: |
Took it apart all seems alright, but I now am trying to measure resistance and I get no reading. Wondering if I'm doing it wrong.
Red lead on rivet, black lead on top cast plate. |
That's correct.
Quote: |
Am I setting my meter wrong? Bad meter? Bad sender? |
Meter is correct (200 ohm range). Touch the meter leads together. It should read (near) zero.
The sender is likely corroded. The corrosion happens between the brass spring plate and the aluminum case. You can't see it, but you can measure it. Measure from the top plate to the solder joint where the resistance wire connects to the spring plate. It should be zero. If not, you need to add a ground wire.
The other place corrosion will get you is in the rivet which connects the external wire terminal with the resistance wire. Measure from the terminal to the (other) solder joint where the wire connects to the tab under the rivet head. Again, it should read zero. If not, buff and solder both ends of the rivet.
I've never seen the resistance wire itself fail (except when physically broken). _________________ '71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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