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newfisher
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:12 am    Post subject: Re: Back country camping trouble Reply with quote

Living in the NW and not camping on asphalt or pavement puts us out in the boonies often. Here's what we do.

We have 2 dogs. They are great protectors of thier area. They bark, they run up on you when you get close, but become a puddle of fur when strangers act like they are going to pet them. Don't trust your dog to protect you.

I carry a carboard box, folded down with a range paper target taped to one side. I unfold it, set it near camp and visible from the road that leads to where we are. I fire a few rounds into it. I put the firarm away and enjoy the rest of our weekend. Yes, you will get people that heard the shots and investigate ( I would too). They walk up, see the target and walk off.

Even on Meth, 2 large barking dogs, sounds of gun fire and a target with a tight group, 99% you will keep walking. MAGA
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:33 am    Post subject: Re: Back country camping trouble Reply with quote

The best odds to lower the risk of "adventures" with local folk is to avoid any and all camping on memorial day, fourth of july and Labor day weekends. Total amateur hour. And they are out in droves. Having said that, we still camp on those weekends but we just know where to go to avoid them

We camp atleast 80-100 nights a year, mostly renegade camping as we have lots of open space. But we do occasionally stay at improved sites when traveling for convenience purposes. We have had more "adventures" with people at the improved sites then the unimproved primitive sites.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:56 am    Post subject: Re: Back country camping trouble Reply with quote

I had an issue once while camped out in the woods, so I slapped his ass good.

Then all his buddies found out about it and ganged up on me, man was THAT a mistake.

Lesson learned, dont slap at a bee in your face, they release chemicals that their brothers and sisters recognize as an attack, and they'll come git ya.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Back country camping trouble Reply with quote

I wouldn't rely on just "a gun" for protection from meth-heads, thieves, Bundy-ized nutballs and what have you.

Before you camp, pick a high point, surveil the spot, lay in some mortar fire to soften up the area, and only then would you drive in with guns ready.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Back country camping trouble Reply with quote

Candyman and Levi have offered some of the best advice in this thread.

I'll go on to add my favorite form of "protection" - always wear work gloves when chopping wood, rehabbing fire pits, playing with fire, handling hot cookware, and miscellaneous "drunkard games".

I can't count how many times I've returned from camping trips with gnarled up hands before I learned that.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Back country camping trouble Reply with quote

Prevention is the best protection. Maybe we could get a list of the isolated spots in the middle of the woods, that have the biggest threat of drugged up gangs attacking.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Back country camping trouble Reply with quote

joetiger wrote:
In over ten years on this forum, I've only ever heard of one seriously negative interaction between rednecks and Vanagon folks, and that was when Aswah's dog got hurt:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=466417&highlight=fight



I was there camping with Aswah and that was the probably the scariest time I've had wild camping. I'm just glad no firearms were involved.

The only frightening times I've had camping in the wilderness have involved guns. Both in the same general area so we don't go near there much anymore.
The first time we mistakenly chose to camp near a group of hunters who returned from their hunt already intoxicated. They drank more and more and started firing their guns at random things, throwing their beer bottles in the river and shooting at them, and basically pressuring the rest of us into shooting with them. I had my "Tiger Van" at the time and since I wouldn't fire one of their guns, did they ever make with the "hippy pussy" comments.
Here's some of the aftermath:

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The second incident was a few years later and we were camping on the other side of the same river. We heard shooting throughout the night but just put it down to yahoos (hopefully no yahoos are offended by this label) getting drunk and shooting into the air.
The next morning we drove across the river to scope out other sites and found a little beach with some paper targets set up on the opposite bank. I had a look around the back of that bank and I could see our camp site from the night before less than a 1/4 mile behind the targets. I don't know the range of the guns that were used but I felt lucky we didn't catch any stray bullets.
All that said, we camp in the wilderness or primitive forestry sites nine times out of ten and prefer the experience to the paved parking lots that pass for provincial campgrounds here. Most people we meet are like-minded and just want to camp in real nature and have some piece and quiet. I feel much safer when I know other people aren't carrying firearms.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Back country camping trouble Reply with quote

schenks13 wrote:
Prevention is the best protection. Maybe we could get a list of the isolated spots in the middle of the woods, that have the biggest threat of drugged up gangs attacking.


That would depend on where my friends and I are camped at any given time Laughing
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Back country camping trouble Reply with quote

People dont realize how dangerous shooting into water is. The bullet can skip like a rock if it hits the surface just right. Hopefully no one is camping anywhere near the other bank
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Back country camping trouble Reply with quote

"That would depend on where my friends and I are camped at any given time."

I'll have to just chose the right color attire then, I guess! What's your gang color? Is that Bordeaux Red Metallic, or Titian Red? Laughing
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Back country camping trouble Reply with quote

We've been heading north out of Baja for several days. My wife's comment this morning, "You look like someone we should be afraid of."
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Back country camping trouble Reply with quote

Farf wrote:
We've been heading north out of Baja for several days. My wife's comment this morning, "You look like someone we should be afraid of."


Yeah, you scared the hell out of us at the grocery store in Todos! Wink

BTW thanks for that beach recommendation south of Mulege...that place was amazing! Cool
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Back country camping trouble Reply with quote

bluebus86 wrote:
carry a gun, know how to use it, know the laws regarding guns. your responsible for you and your families defense. if a gang or drug crazed wack job is attacking you a dog may be of little help, but lead at center of mass sure deters them. there are wackos out there and you can be vulnerable while camping, so lock and load. If i am camping at an unimproved isolated camp, my gun is next to my sleeping bag when I am sleeping. of course if the gang banger party pulls up near you it would be best to leave, but if trouble happens, shoot them dead. better them than you.

It is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

good luck, stay safe


I'm rather enjoying this thread. Counterpoint to Bluebus above, don't take it personally. It's just a counterpoing.

Don't carry a gun. Be happy, peaceful and free. I'm not a pushover and not a hippie. I'm not ex-military or a cop. I'm probably the only person in my state who thinks this way (Tennessee). In fact, I'm sure of it. I live rurally now but grew up in Memphis, highest crime rate in the world or something I think. I didn't carry then, nor did my parents or any adults I know. I don't now and never will. Bear spray? YEP! Common sense? YEP! Don't live or camp in urban areas especially in California? YEP, DON'T! WON'T! My response may quickly throw this thread into the black hole of gun rights, I hope not but I guess that's fine, this is probably the first time I've ever spoken publicly on this subject. The LAST thing I want in my bus is a gun. I've never seen any good come from guns. Well, maybe in movies.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Back country camping trouble Reply with quote

86scotty wrote:
bluebus86 wrote:
carry a gun, know how to use it, know the laws regarding guns. your responsible for you and your families defense. if a gang or drug crazed wack job is attacking you a dog may be of little help, but lead at center of mass sure deters them. there are wackos out there and you can be vulnerable while camping, so lock and load. If i am camping at an unimproved isolated camp, my gun is next to my sleeping bag when I am sleeping. of course if the gang banger party pulls up near you it would be best to leave, but if trouble happens, shoot them dead. better them than you.

It is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

good luck, stay safe


I'm rather enjoying this thread. Counterpoint to Bluebus above, don't take it personally. It's just a counterpoing.

Don't carry a gun. Be happy, peaceful and free. I'm not a pushover and not a hippie. I'm not ex-military or a cop. I'm probably the only person in my state who thinks this way (Tennessee). In fact, I'm sure of it. I live rurally now but grew up in Memphis, highest crime rate in the world or something I think. I didn't carry then, nor did my parents or any adults I know. I don't now and never will. Bear spray? YEP! Common sense? YEP! Don't live or camp in urban areas especially in California? YEP, DON'T! WON'T! My response may quickly throw this thread into the black hole of gun rights, I hope not but I guess that's fine, this is probably the first time I've ever spoken publicly on this subject. The LAST thing I want in my bus is a gun. I've never seen any good come from guns. Well, maybe in movies.


nothing personal taken, I strongly believe you have a right to not be armed if thats what you want.

good luck
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Back country camping trouble Reply with quote

We've been out 44 months and have no desire to carry a gun. Unlike the nutters of this world, I tend to actually read than live in paranoid fear, and statistics show you're safer without one.

But we do have bear spray and a nice two by four.

To elaborate further, anyone thinking they need a gun to feel safe will probably assume I have one, too. Fear can be our friend here. In practice, follow your gut, leave if it tells you to, it's smarter than the scared nutters.

Avoid areas of meth use. Be nice to them if confronted. Act like you're like them. Don't look down on them.

Of our 44 months, only three were in the Southeast, and to be frank, gut said to leave -- so we did.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Back country camping trouble Reply with quote

photogdave wrote:
I was there camping with Aswah and that was the probably the scariest time I've had wild camping. I'm just glad no firearms were involved.

The only frightening times I've had camping in the wilderness have involved guns. Both in the same general area so we don't go near there much anymore.

The first time we mistakenly chose to camp near a group of hunters who returned from their hunt already intoxicated. They drank more and more and started firing their guns at random things, throwing their beer bottles in the river and shooting at them, and basically pressuring the rest of us into shooting with them. I had my "Tiger Van" at the time and since I wouldn't fire one of their guns, did they ever make with the "hippy pussy" comments.

Here's some of the aftermath:

[pic]

The second incident was a few years later and we were camping on the other side of the same river. We heard shooting throughout the night but just put it down to yahoos (hopefully no yahoos are offended by this label) getting drunk and shooting into the air.
The next morning we drove across the river to scope out other sites and found a little beach with some paper targets set up on the opposite bank. I had a look around the back of that bank and I could see our camp site from the night before less than a 1/4 mile behind the targets. I don't know the range of the guns that were used but I felt lucky we didn't catch any stray bullets.
All that said, we camp in the wilderness or primitive forestry sites nine times out of ten and prefer the experience to the paved parking lots that pass for provincial campgrounds here. Most people we meet are like-minded and just want to camp in real nature and have some piece and quiet. I feel much safer when I know other people aren't carrying firearms.


Of course the only two frightening times camping for you evidently involved some folks drinking, possibly illegal drunkedness (public intoxication) from the discription of events. Drunks dont mix well with a lot of things, guns, vanagons, cars, airplanes, boats, etc... Also rules were broken regarding safe shooting, which drunkeness likely paid a part in.

Of course if being attacked, or witnessing such an attack on another, when life or limb are at stake, I hope I or some one does have a gun to fend off said attack.

Being a bit old, a bit crippled, I want an edge over a drug crazed, drunken younger guy who is an expierenced street fighter.

If you want to feel safer, how can you be really sure if a nearby camper has a gun in his tent or not? Do you ask, search his tent, frisk him? Does the safety feeling decrease if an openly armed Ranger is near?


good luck
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Back country camping trouble Reply with quote

E1 wrote:
Avoid areas of meth use.


I'll go one step further, at the risk of offending some folks here: Avoid areas of high alcohol consumption.

Imbibing in an alcoholic beverage or two at camp is fine, but drinking enough to get plastered is a whole other ballgame. I've been around enough drunks in my life, from being scared witless as a child to seeing fights as an adult (and things in between), and want absolutely nothing to do with them, and thanks to their belligerence, don't want to be camped near them. Alcohol in excess is a leading cause of a lot of problems in society, especially when mixed with other activities. Confused
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Back country camping trouble Reply with quote

Guns are not allowed in most government run campgrounds. I was camping at a US forest service campground and the ranger told me about some guys shooting off some guns in the campground a couple of night before and they were all sent to jail for it.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Back country camping trouble Reply with quote

I have never had problems camping in the backcountry.We usually find places that most people don't go to, or are more difficult to get to than the average person will attempt. That is one reason why I love our van. It takes us just about everywhere we want to go. If others show up that don't meet with our interests, I just put the top down and move on. It is not worth the brain damage to have an altercation with someone you don't know. Concealed carry is ok with me, and I have never had to even think about using a gun.

Get out there and go camping! Very Happy

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Back country camping trouble Reply with quote

Jack,

Not necessarily, it could be for any reason at all if you sense ill intent. I guess what I'm advocating is what any person with the skills to handle themselves will tell you: Don't act like a victim. If confronted by someone with bad intentions in a 7-Eleven parking lot in broad daylight, or a pickup full of drunks in the dark woods, have a plan and execute it immediately. That requires thinking about it in advance before you leave home. At the 7-Eleven it makes sense to scream, yell and bring attention of others. In the woods, that's not a good idea - best to get back to your van and make a stand. Once its clear you are going to get physically attacked, hopefully you have a plan. I do.

But the best plan of all is one you don't have to deploy. After all, nobody wants to spend the next day filling out paperwork, right? So as noted above pick your camping spots, leave if asshats arrive, and know that holiday weekends bring people and alcohol out into the woods in droves.

Everyone has their own philosophy and presumably it works for them. For me, I don't relax when I bring my family along unless I have made provision to be able to defend them with an absolute winning plan. Then I don't give it another thought the whole trip - in the city, in the deepest woods, or the most remote lake. A perfect example is my seatbelt. I put it on and don't give it another thought. But if something bad happens, it's already in place.

Doug
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