Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Coolant overflow tank is overflowing (SOLVED)
Page: 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
JDub113
Samba Member


Joined: June 08, 2009
Posts: 758
Location: Reno
JDub113 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:43 pm    Post subject: Coolant overflow tank is overflowing (SOLVED) Reply with quote

I need some quick ideas friends. My mechanic is stumped and he's the best in town. When I drive lately, I've done two test drives 20-30 miles each and it's hard to tell when driving it unless coolant is visibly burning off the exhaust and up they the vent. The 2ND TEST I put on a new yes, non German blue pressure tank cap, with same results.

I don't see any leaks. Mechanic didn't see any leaks from having it overnight. I brought up head gaskets failing and letting air in, he said it would typically be leaking first.

Syncrofest is in a week, everything else is good!! Please help, I'm obviously desperate. I'm supposed to take the wife, just the two of us.

I'll pull the plugs to see if they are wet I guess.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
84 Wolfsburg Edition Westy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
djkeev
Samba Moderator


Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32432
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
djkeev is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING Reply with quote

Compromised compression seals or a seriously cracked head.

You probably won't find coolant in the combustion chamber, 120lbs comoression trumps 13 lbs coolant.

Not what you want to hear I'm sure......

Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos

Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Ahwahnee
Samba Member


Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 9775
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
Ahwahnee is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING Reply with quote

X2 -- the classic symptom of a compression leak due to a failed gasket.

Test for this is to sniff for combustion gases in the 'air' in the system. There are a couple of ways to check this including a DIY test kit.

Not the end of the world but a major speed bump.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
davevickery
Samba Member


Joined: July 16, 2005
Posts: 2887
Location: Fort Collins, CO
davevickery is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING Reply with quote

The vent holes for the non pressurized overflow tank are on top. You can stuff some dry paper towels around that area and see if they get soaked.

But the coolant level in your picture is way too high. The max line is below the fill cap. So if you overfilled the system, it will push out coolant. If you didn't overfill it and it was between the min and max lines, and it expanded that much from driving, then you most likely have a failed cap that is not holding pressure. The pressure will keep the coolant from expanding too much.

If the cap is holding pressure and it still did that, you might have a head gasket issue or something else weird. I think if the head gaskets were doing that, you would see crud in the expansion (pressurized tank) btu I could be wrong.

I just did a combustion gas check for my subaru engine and it simple. I borrowed the test kit from an autooparts store and the test fluid cost $9.00. You can find videos on YT. You remove some coolant from the expansion tank and put the tester over the hole and see if the test fluid changes color. You could try that, but I doubt you have a big issue. Probably overfilled the system or the cap is bad.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
SteveVanB
Samba Member


Joined: June 01, 2008
Posts: 1645
Location: This side of Daytona
SteveVanB is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING Reply with quote

X3 on the compression seals. Had the same thing happen to me 9 hours from home. 13 hours and @25 gallons of water later, i made it home.
_________________
91 CARAT
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Ahwahnee
Samba Member


Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 9775
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
Ahwahnee is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING Reply with quote

BTW - A compression test or a leak down test typically won't reveal this, the pressures in those tests are much lower than a firing cylinder.

Additionally, the combustion leak may only be occurring once the engine is hot.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
JDub113
Samba Member


Joined: June 08, 2009
Posts: 758
Location: Reno
JDub113 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING Reply with quote

How does one overfill the system? I was just filling until full, then I did top off the pressurized tank a couple times...

But that's a lot of coolant.

I only filled it to the MAX line before test driving. Maybe I'll drain more out to the max line again and repeat test?

Also compression seals, where are these? Learning as we go here.
_________________
84 Wolfsburg Edition Westy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Steve M.
Samba Member


Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6798
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
Steve M. is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING Reply with quote

JDub113 wrote:
How does one overfill the system? I was just filling until full, then I did top off the pressurized tank a couple times...

But that's a lot of coolant.

I only filled it to the MAX line before test driving. Maybe I'll drain more out to the max line again and repeat test?

Also compression seals, where are these? Learning as we go here.


See if you can bleed any air out when it is cooled by loosening the bleeder on top of the radiator before you remove any coolant.
If you filled it to the MAX line and it is way above that then something had to occupy the space where it was.
Of course it will expand when hot so see where the level is after it has cooled overnight.
_________________
This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
JDub113
Samba Member


Joined: June 08, 2009
Posts: 758
Location: Reno
JDub113 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING Reply with quote

I opened radiator bleed screw. Pressurized air came out for a while and it smells like combustion gases. Beyond irritated.

So what gaskets do I need to replace? Head gaskets and some other ones on either end of the piston sleeve? Maybe a good how to thread or maybe not worth it? Compression in the shop I think was 145,140,120,125.
_________________
84 Wolfsburg Edition Westy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
WestyBob
Samba Member


Joined: June 11, 2004
Posts: 2346
Location: Portland, Oregon
WestyBob is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING Reply with quote

Recommend replacing the main reservoir cap with one called a "Blau" from Germany. It is blue like the other 'somewhere else' caps but has 'Blau' written on top. Vancafe and other places sell the Blau caps (google on "vanagon Blau reservoir caps for sale"). There has been a rash of issues with those 'other' caps with regards to poor valves.

Next make sure you check for air bubbles in the coolant system by 'burping' the main reservoir after the engine is warmed up a slight bit. Wear a leather work glove and slowly unscrew. You may hear the hissing of air. The coolant will rush up so quickly close until it resettles, then repeat. Try to get all the air out. This may require only a couple of times or even doing it over several days.

If those two don't do it then you may have, as others mentioned, more serious issues.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
djkeev
Samba Moderator


Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32432
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
djkeev is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:27 am    Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING Reply with quote

Where the top of the piston Cylinder meets the head there are sealing rings for compression and a rubber oring for cooling "water".

If the compression seal is bad, compression gases easily blow by the rubber orings.

Also these cylinder heads crack between the valves and also at the spark plug hole. These cracks are usually not an operating problem but a severe crack can enter the cooling passages in the head.

Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos

Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
JDub113
Samba Member


Joined: June 08, 2009
Posts: 758
Location: Reno
JDub113 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:24 am    Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING Reply with quote

If the cap were bad (trying to be positive), where would the system be drawing this much "air/gases" from?

My mechanic thinks that's a super slim chance that this new off brand cap is bad also.
_________________
84 Wolfsburg Edition Westy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bluebus86
Banned


Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075

bluebus86 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:42 am    Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING Reply with quote

JDub113 wrote:
If the cap were bad (trying to be positive), where would the system be drawing this much "air/gases" from?

My mechanic thinks that's a super slim chance that this new off brand cap is bad also.


test the cap on my van a leaky cap caused this. no cap tester?..., can you suck air thru the barbed fitting? if so the cap is bad. there are rumors that aftermarkets caps may have pressure holding problems

hopefully it is only the cap at fault

good luck
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Ahwahnee
Samba Member


Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 9775
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
Ahwahnee is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:01 am    Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING Reply with quote

JDub113 wrote:
If the cap were bad (trying to be positive), where would the system be drawing this much "air/gases" from?...


You got me.

I can only imagine a couple of ways the cap can fail -

1. It does not hold the specified pressure which will lower the boiling point of the coolant. Some people prefer this set-up (less or no pressure) and modify a cap to do this.

2. It does not release at the specified pressure which can lead to high pressure and subsequent component failure (e.g. split tank, burst hose, connection failure, etc).

3. It does not draw coolant back into the system as the engine cools. I have never encountered this issue, just thinking of what could go wrong.

Certainly worthwhile testing the cap if only so you can move on to the next test.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
WestyBob
Samba Member


Joined: June 11, 2004
Posts: 2346
Location: Portland, Oregon
WestyBob is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:15 am    Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING Reply with quote

JDub113 wrote:
If the cap were bad (trying to be positive), where would the system be drawing this much "air/gases" from?

My mechanic thinks that's a super slim chance that this new off brand cap is bad also.


I've known more than numerous people (including myself) that have had overheating/coolant pressure leak issues, have installed the Blau cap and issue solved. Whether or not that's your problem, it's a very quick and cheap way to test first. But yes, many, many new caps coming from elsewhere fail from the start. If your mechanic works frequently on vanagons then he should know this by now or else he's working in a vacuum. My over-riding point is to check these easy little things first - the air in system and the cap. This may save on expensive unnecessary work and get you rolling to SF soon.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
davevickery
Samba Member


Joined: July 16, 2005
Posts: 2887
Location: Fort Collins, CO
davevickery is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:38 am    Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING Reply with quote


Link
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
90Doka_Guy
Samba Member


Joined: April 08, 2007
Posts: 548
Location: South Jersey
90Doka_Guy is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING Reply with quote

I have had the cylinder gaskets go bad on mine and symptoms were coolant being pushed out of the pressurized tank into the overflow tank which eventually triggered a low coolant light. This would happen when under sustained load but was fine around town.

When revving up to 3-4K in the driveway and watching the pressure tank I was able to see bubbles enter the tank. If your gaskets are bad you might be able to see the same doing this. That would be a pretty good indication of bad gaskets.
_________________
-'87 Westy
-'90 Tintop
-'90 DOKA
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
JDub113
Samba Member


Joined: June 08, 2009
Posts: 758
Location: Reno
JDub113 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:43 am    Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING Reply with quote

To be clear- a bad thermostat or water pump or radiator would not duplicate these symptoms right? I should be doing some testing tonight.
_________________
84 Wolfsburg Edition Westy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dobryan
Samba Member


Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16473
Location: Brookeville, MD
dobryan is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:20 am    Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING Reply with quote

JDub113 wrote:
To be clear- a bad thermostat or water pump or radiator would not duplicate these symptoms right? I should be doing some testing tonight.


None of those should cause the reservoir to overflow like yours is doing. They can cause it to overheat however.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
newfisher
Samba Member


Joined: January 05, 2012
Posts: 1764
Location: The wet spot--Oregon
newfisher is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:51 am    Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING Reply with quote

A combustion gas test is your NEXT test. This will reveal,negate, validate, confirm all of the suspicions.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.