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JDub113 Samba Member
Joined: June 08, 2009 Posts: 758 Location: Reno
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:43 pm Post subject: Coolant overflow tank is overflowing (SOLVED) |
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I need some quick ideas friends. My mechanic is stumped and he's the best in town. When I drive lately, I've done two test drives 20-30 miles each and it's hard to tell when driving it unless coolant is visibly burning off the exhaust and up they the vent. The 2ND TEST I put on a new yes, non German blue pressure tank cap, with same results.
I don't see any leaks. Mechanic didn't see any leaks from having it overnight. I brought up head gaskets failing and letting air in, he said it would typically be leaking first.
Syncrofest is in a week, everything else is good!! Please help, I'm obviously desperate. I'm supposed to take the wife, just the two of us.
I'll pull the plugs to see if they are wet I guess.
_________________ 84 Wolfsburg Edition Westy |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32432 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9775 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING |
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X2 -- the classic symptom of a compression leak due to a failed gasket.
Test for this is to sniff for combustion gases in the 'air' in the system. There are a couple of ways to check this including a DIY test kit.
Not the end of the world but a major speed bump. |
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davevickery Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2005 Posts: 2887 Location: Fort Collins, CO
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING |
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The vent holes for the non pressurized overflow tank are on top. You can stuff some dry paper towels around that area and see if they get soaked.
But the coolant level in your picture is way too high. The max line is below the fill cap. So if you overfilled the system, it will push out coolant. If you didn't overfill it and it was between the min and max lines, and it expanded that much from driving, then you most likely have a failed cap that is not holding pressure. The pressure will keep the coolant from expanding too much.
If the cap is holding pressure and it still did that, you might have a head gasket issue or something else weird. I think if the head gaskets were doing that, you would see crud in the expansion (pressurized tank) btu I could be wrong.
I just did a combustion gas check for my subaru engine and it simple. I borrowed the test kit from an autooparts store and the test fluid cost $9.00. You can find videos on YT. You remove some coolant from the expansion tank and put the tester over the hole and see if the test fluid changes color. You could try that, but I doubt you have a big issue. Probably overfilled the system or the cap is bad. |
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SteveVanB Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2008 Posts: 1645 Location: This side of Daytona
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:27 pm Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING |
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X3 on the compression seals. Had the same thing happen to me 9 hours from home. 13 hours and @25 gallons of water later, i made it home. _________________ 91 CARAT |
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9775 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING |
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BTW - A compression test or a leak down test typically won't reveal this, the pressures in those tests are much lower than a firing cylinder.
Additionally, the combustion leak may only be occurring once the engine is hot. |
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JDub113 Samba Member
Joined: June 08, 2009 Posts: 758 Location: Reno
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING |
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How does one overfill the system? I was just filling until full, then I did top off the pressurized tank a couple times...
But that's a lot of coolant.
I only filled it to the MAX line before test driving. Maybe I'll drain more out to the max line again and repeat test?
Also compression seals, where are these? Learning as we go here. _________________ 84 Wolfsburg Edition Westy |
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Steve M. Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013 Posts: 6798 Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING |
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JDub113 wrote: |
How does one overfill the system? I was just filling until full, then I did top off the pressurized tank a couple times...
But that's a lot of coolant.
I only filled it to the MAX line before test driving. Maybe I'll drain more out to the max line again and repeat test?
Also compression seals, where are these? Learning as we go here. |
See if you can bleed any air out when it is cooled by loosening the bleeder on top of the radiator before you remove any coolant.
If you filled it to the MAX line and it is way above that then something had to occupy the space where it was.
Of course it will expand when hot so see where the level is after it has cooled overnight. _________________ This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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JDub113 Samba Member
Joined: June 08, 2009 Posts: 758 Location: Reno
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING |
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I opened radiator bleed screw. Pressurized air came out for a while and it smells like combustion gases. Beyond irritated.
So what gaskets do I need to replace? Head gaskets and some other ones on either end of the piston sleeve? Maybe a good how to thread or maybe not worth it? Compression in the shop I think was 145,140,120,125. _________________ 84 Wolfsburg Edition Westy |
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WestyBob Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2004 Posts: 2346 Location: Portland, Oregon
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:59 pm Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING |
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Recommend replacing the main reservoir cap with one called a "Blau" from Germany. It is blue like the other 'somewhere else' caps but has 'Blau' written on top. Vancafe and other places sell the Blau caps (google on "vanagon Blau reservoir caps for sale"). There has been a rash of issues with those 'other' caps with regards to poor valves.
Next make sure you check for air bubbles in the coolant system by 'burping' the main reservoir after the engine is warmed up a slight bit. Wear a leather work glove and slowly unscrew. You may hear the hissing of air. The coolant will rush up so quickly close until it resettles, then repeat. Try to get all the air out. This may require only a couple of times or even doing it over several days.
If those two don't do it then you may have, as others mentioned, more serious issues. |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32432 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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JDub113 Samba Member
Joined: June 08, 2009 Posts: 758 Location: Reno
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Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:24 am Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING |
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If the cap were bad (trying to be positive), where would the system be drawing this much "air/gases" from?
My mechanic thinks that's a super slim chance that this new off brand cap is bad also. _________________ 84 Wolfsburg Edition Westy |
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bluebus86 Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075
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Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:42 am Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING |
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JDub113 wrote: |
If the cap were bad (trying to be positive), where would the system be drawing this much "air/gases" from?
My mechanic thinks that's a super slim chance that this new off brand cap is bad also. |
test the cap on my van a leaky cap caused this. no cap tester?..., can you suck air thru the barbed fitting? if so the cap is bad. there are rumors that aftermarkets caps may have pressure holding problems
hopefully it is only the cap at fault
good luck _________________ Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9775 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:01 am Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING |
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JDub113 wrote: |
If the cap were bad (trying to be positive), where would the system be drawing this much "air/gases" from?... |
You got me.
I can only imagine a couple of ways the cap can fail -
1. It does not hold the specified pressure which will lower the boiling point of the coolant. Some people prefer this set-up (less or no pressure) and modify a cap to do this.
2. It does not release at the specified pressure which can lead to high pressure and subsequent component failure (e.g. split tank, burst hose, connection failure, etc).
3. It does not draw coolant back into the system as the engine cools. I have never encountered this issue, just thinking of what could go wrong.
Certainly worthwhile testing the cap if only so you can move on to the next test. |
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WestyBob Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2004 Posts: 2346 Location: Portland, Oregon
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Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:15 am Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING |
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JDub113 wrote: |
If the cap were bad (trying to be positive), where would the system be drawing this much "air/gases" from?
My mechanic thinks that's a super slim chance that this new off brand cap is bad also. |
I've known more than numerous people (including myself) that have had overheating/coolant pressure leak issues, have installed the Blau cap and issue solved. Whether or not that's your problem, it's a very quick and cheap way to test first. But yes, many, many new caps coming from elsewhere fail from the start. If your mechanic works frequently on vanagons then he should know this by now or else he's working in a vacuum. My over-riding point is to check these easy little things first - the air in system and the cap. This may save on expensive unnecessary work and get you rolling to SF soon. |
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davevickery Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2005 Posts: 2887 Location: Fort Collins, CO
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Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING |
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90Doka_Guy Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2007 Posts: 548 Location: South Jersey
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Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING |
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I have had the cylinder gaskets go bad on mine and symptoms were coolant being pushed out of the pressurized tank into the overflow tank which eventually triggered a low coolant light. This would happen when under sustained load but was fine around town.
When revving up to 3-4K in the driveway and watching the pressure tank I was able to see bubbles enter the tank. If your gaskets are bad you might be able to see the same doing this. That would be a pretty good indication of bad gaskets. _________________ -'87 Westy
-'90 Tintop
-'90 DOKA |
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JDub113 Samba Member
Joined: June 08, 2009 Posts: 758 Location: Reno
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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING |
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To be clear- a bad thermostat or water pump or radiator would not duplicate these symptoms right? I should be doing some testing tonight. _________________ 84 Wolfsburg Edition Westy |
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dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16473 Location: Brookeville, MD
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newfisher Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2012 Posts: 1764 Location: The wet spot--Oregon
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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:51 am Post subject: Re: Coolant overflow tank OVERFLOWING |
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A combustion gas test is your NEXT test. This will reveal,negate, validate, confirm all of the suspicions. |
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