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hopkin Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2012 Posts: 2469 Location: Ottawa, Ontario
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:04 pm Post subject: Re: Official Mexican / Brazilian Beetles - All years |
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I've uncovered some more information related to the assembly of the 'Open Air' roofs. I thought I would post it here for anyone interested on how these roofs are put together. (There is no documentation on these roofs).
I spotted some parts in the photo below (from Deco Haus) that I hadn't seen before:
There was also this close up the part posted on the same day. It appeared that this part is mounted just behind the opening for the window visor:
From the look of the photo above, I think these parts are used to hold the roof frame on.
I dug back through some pictures and found that there are six of these items used (3 per side):
I also found this photo that shows at least one of them after the roof frame has been removed:
_________________ 1971 Super Beetle (past)
1971 Super Beetle (past)
1974 SunBug (past)
1972 914 (past)
1991 Honda Civic (Original Owner)
1996 'Open Air' Mexican Beetle (current)
2015 Golf (current)
2017 Dune Edition (daughter's car) |
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GArBa Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2014 Posts: 2103 Location: Milano, Italy
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:53 am Post subject: Re: Official Mexican / Brazilian Beetles - All years |
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It's also quite interesting to see the paint pattern on the bodyshell. I'm already quite sure that the final color coat was applied with the body in place (on mine there is also some red overspray on the z-bar and parts of the rear suspension, but no sign of damage repair can be seen anywhere - I wonder if it was a factory thing) on the pan, from the pic it appears that thay also didn't bother to paint the areas that are covered by the upholstery. _________________ cars:
'97 type 1 1600i
'14 type AA Seat Mii (sadly dead after 270.000 km)
'22 type C1 T-Cross
'23 type AC3 Hyundai I10 (VW no longer makes small cars!)
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moped:
'82 Benelli Magnum 3v |
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alex857 Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2010 Posts: 708 Location: Stuttgart/Germany
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:40 am Post subject: Re: Official Mexican / Brazilian Beetles - All years |
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Hi,
it is definitely desillusionating how little paint there is inside... and in sharp contrast to German built Beetles. However, we must Keep in mind that the Beetle survived in Mexico at the low cost end of the market and VW literally had to save every Peso to continue to produce it for so long. That also explains the poor equipment compared to a 1977 Standard Beetle.
On our website you see a small video of the production process in Mexico where you can see that the body was painted seperately. The pan was painted in body colour (since 1984).
http://k-ue.de/index.php/men-rundumdenkaefer/die-produktion |
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hopkin Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2012 Posts: 2469 Location: Ottawa, Ontario
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:03 am Post subject: Re: Official Mexican / Brazilian Beetles - All years |
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One other thing I noticed is the rear seat belts. On the German bodies, I believe there is a mounting point above the rear seat behind the window (for the shoulder strap).
I don't see that mounting point in the photos. That explains why the European importers mounted the rear through the engine fire wall:
The Beetles sold in Mexico only had lap belts in the back, and interestingly enough, when my car was brought to the UK from Germany, the shoulder belts were removed and the lap belts restored. The MOT said that the mounting point was too low for the shoulder belts, but lap belts were OK
I left the lap belts in the rear, but I did replace them with VW brand belts, as the UK importer used Chevy lap belts. _________________ 1971 Super Beetle (past)
1971 Super Beetle (past)
1974 SunBug (past)
1972 914 (past)
1991 Honda Civic (Original Owner)
1996 'Open Air' Mexican Beetle (current)
2015 Golf (current)
2017 Dune Edition (daughter's car) |
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GArBa Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2014 Posts: 2103 Location: Milano, Italy
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:53 am Post subject: Re: Official Mexican / Brazilian Beetles - All years |
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alex857 wrote: |
...On our website you see a small video of the production process in Mexico where you can see that the body was painted seperately. |
from your paint booth pics it would appear that the pan was bolted to the shell during the paint stage:
here I spot the shocks towers and jack supports on the side
here the frame head and horns are visible
I still can't figure out the red overspray on my z-bar and rocker covers; at first I tought the PO had the car repainted, but he assured me this is not the case and furthermore the oversparay is below by the stonechip that was applied upon import in Italy (I have the bill of sale specifying it). maybe it had suffered some shipping damage? _________________ cars:
'97 type 1 1600i
'14 type AA Seat Mii (sadly dead after 270.000 km)
'22 type C1 T-Cross
'23 type AC3 Hyundai I10 (VW no longer makes small cars!)
-------------------------
moped:
'82 Benelli Magnum 3v |
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alex857 Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2010 Posts: 708 Location: Stuttgart/Germany
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: Official Mexican / Brazilian Beetles - All years |
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wow-
you are right! I never even noticed although I looked at these pictures so often. Later they seperate body and pan again only to bring them back together as soon as the pan is complete wirh engine... |
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GArBa Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2014 Posts: 2103 Location: Milano, Italy
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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: Official Mexican / Brazilian Beetles - All years |
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This paint process makes sense from a cost reduction point of view because this way a bug can be painted on a single line like monocoque cars instead of having a "all black" line for the frames and a "colored" one for the bodies.
I'm still wondering about the overspray... there was maybe a final "touch-up" department? your pics are I suppose taken in the last weeks of production, so equipment shown may actually be newer/better than in 1997 when mine was built? _________________ cars:
'97 type 1 1600i
'14 type AA Seat Mii (sadly dead after 270.000 km)
'22 type C1 T-Cross
'23 type AC3 Hyundai I10 (VW no longer makes small cars!)
-------------------------
moped:
'82 Benelli Magnum 3v |
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Gerrelt Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2004 Posts: 682 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:08 am Post subject: Re: Official Mexican / Brazilian Beetles - All years |
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@hopkin: thanks for the pictures again, I've saved them.
@GArBa and @alex857: I've also seen overspray on the floorpan of our 1996 beetle. But only on the floorpan, not on the suspension components.
You can see the overspray clearly here:
In this photo I am in the process of seperating the body from the frame, hence the big gap between them. _________________ homepage
_________________ |
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favguy Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2012 Posts: 227 Location: England
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Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:03 pm Post subject: Re: Official Mexican / Brazilian Beetles - All years |
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I owned a 1984 Mexican from new and the floor pan was painted black (the car was red)
I found the general quality of the car to be indistinguishable from a 70's German built car. At that time Mexican built cars were still imported and sold officially through German VAG dealerships and were very similar to early 70's 1200 carburetor cars. (still had the flat rear valance) It held up well too, it gave me 10 years daily use in all weathers and over 72k miles, only needing exhausts and a set of heat exchangers over routine servicing. I then sold it for more than I paid for it new, still looking close to how it left the showroom! I still miss it.
I think once the car became a lower priced domestic market product only, everything possible was done to cut costs, hence the loss of much of the chrome work, the vent ears behind the rear side windows, and cheaper looking interior materials and plastics. I hadn't realised they'd switched to painting the chassis once on the car before now though! |
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hopkin Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2012 Posts: 2469 Location: Ottawa, Ontario
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Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: Official Mexican / Brazilian Beetles - All years |
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I changed out the front and rear shocks on my car today. I bought the new sets from Wolfsburg West. No problems at all changing them out:
I immediately noticed a smoother ride, and I had a noise when I got in and out of the car. It is gone now.
It didn't change the way the car sits (not higher or lower):
I mentioned this before, the drivers side is still lower than the passenger side, at the rear only. The driver's side is about 1/2 inch lower than the passenger side. I think I'll need to make an adjustment. Time to do some reading. _________________ 1971 Super Beetle (past)
1971 Super Beetle (past)
1974 SunBug (past)
1972 914 (past)
1991 Honda Civic (Original Owner)
1996 'Open Air' Mexican Beetle (current)
2015 Golf (current)
2017 Dune Edition (daughter's car) |
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alex857 Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2010 Posts: 708 Location: Stuttgart/Germany
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Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:01 pm Post subject: Re: Official Mexican / Brazilian Beetles - All years |
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Hi,
finally I reassambled my 1984 Mexican Samtroter Sonderkäfer on Saturday with new clutch, new throwout bearing, new gearbox mountings, new tar boards, good cleaning of everything underneath and some minor stuff, now she´s back on the road.
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nx6h Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2012 Posts: 156 Location: northern ireland
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:06 am Post subject: Re: Official Mexican / Brazilian Beetles - All years |
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i like the removable valance . It seems a very good/useful modification |
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GArBa Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2014 Posts: 2103 Location: Milano, Italy
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:29 am Post subject: Re: Official Mexican / Brazilian Beetles - All years |
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hopkin wrote: |
...the drivers side is still lower than the passenger side, at the rear only. The driver's side is about 1/2 inch lower than the passenger side. I think I'll need to make an adjustment. Time to do some reading. |
sorry to hear that... had been hoping it would have settled down after the tire change. Part of me hopes it's not a torsion bar issue because working on them scares me, part of me hopes it is so that we can have a beautiful detailed post from you on how to fix them! (j/k) _________________ cars:
'97 type 1 1600i
'14 type AA Seat Mii (sadly dead after 270.000 km)
'22 type C1 T-Cross
'23 type AC3 Hyundai I10 (VW no longer makes small cars!)
-------------------------
moped:
'82 Benelli Magnum 3v |
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hopkin Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2012 Posts: 2469 Location: Ottawa, Ontario
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Official Mexican / Brazilian Beetles - All years |
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GArBa wrote: |
...
sorry to hear that... had been hoping it would have settled down after the tire change. Part of me hopes it's not a torsion bar issue because working on them scares me, part of me hopes it is so that we can have a beautiful detailed post from you on how to fix them! (j/k) |
Thanks!
I also noticed something else. I think one the driver's side rear fender was replaced at some point. The alignment of the wheels to the edge of the fender is not the same. The left fender sticks out about 5 cm more than the right fender.
Driver's Side:
Passenger Side:
I measured at the center of the wheel to the inside fender wall, it's a rough measurement, but it shows the difference.
Looking under the car, at the wheel wells, there is no sign that either fender was replaced. None of the bolts look like there has been a wrench on them and both wheel wells are coated with the same black undercoating on each side. The paint finish, including clear coat is the same on both fenders and the rest of the car.
The only reason I suspect the left side was replaced (and not the right side) is because the beading does not perfectly line up:
I always thought that it was just a defect, and one day I was going fix it (which I'll probably do anyways).
I doubt that the factory would have put two slightly different sized fenders on my car, but I guess it's possible.
I looked back on old pictures, it looks to me like they have been out of alignment as long as I've had the car, I just never noticed it before. (Not that I thought the fenders would magically change size )
Damn OCD , now this is going to bother me. I'll have to buy new fenders and paint the car, not! _________________ 1971 Super Beetle (past)
1971 Super Beetle (past)
1974 SunBug (past)
1972 914 (past)
1991 Honda Civic (Original Owner)
1996 'Open Air' Mexican Beetle (current)
2015 Golf (current)
2017 Dune Edition (daughter's car) |
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GArBa Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2014 Posts: 2103 Location: Milano, Italy
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:40 am Post subject: Re: Official Mexican / Brazilian Beetles - All years |
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that's odd. have you tried measuring the fenders against a different reference than the wheels (e.g. a point on the body or an external datum)? reason I'm asking is that if your car leans on one side as per your previous posts it may affect the relative position of the wheel in the fender. _________________ cars:
'97 type 1 1600i
'14 type AA Seat Mii (sadly dead after 270.000 km)
'22 type C1 T-Cross
'23 type AC3 Hyundai I10 (VW no longer makes small cars!)
-------------------------
moped:
'82 Benelli Magnum 3v |
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hopkin Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2012 Posts: 2469 Location: Ottawa, Ontario
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:28 am Post subject: Re: Official Mexican / Brazilian Beetles - All years |
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I measured from the same spot in the wheel well across the top of the tire, looking straight down (using the center of the tire as the reference point).
Once I noticed the difference, it is quite obvious. I would not have noticed it with the smaller tires I use in the winter.
It's possible that the car is now sitting a little different with the new shocks on the back (not that I think that caused the difference, but that it made it more noticeable).
I looked back on some old pictures, and I see the difference, these are from last summer:
_________________ 1971 Super Beetle (past)
1971 Super Beetle (past)
1974 SunBug (past)
1972 914 (past)
1991 Honda Civic (Original Owner)
1996 'Open Air' Mexican Beetle (current)
2015 Golf (current)
2017 Dune Edition (daughter's car) |
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GArBa Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2014 Posts: 2103 Location: Milano, Italy
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:19 am Post subject: Re: Official Mexican / Brazilian Beetles - All years |
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I looked back at your post more carefully, you wrote 5cm and that was A LOT, now I see from the pic it's 5mm, that may be due to a number of factors (e.g. flex in the body due to removal of the roof structure), not necessarily a replaced fender. try to measure e.g. the distance from the top of the wheel arch to a chassis component such as the torsion cover and the witdth of the fender itself at the bolts. that should give you a better picture of what's going on. _________________ cars:
'97 type 1 1600i
'14 type AA Seat Mii (sadly dead after 270.000 km)
'22 type C1 T-Cross
'23 type AC3 Hyundai I10 (VW no longer makes small cars!)
-------------------------
moped:
'82 Benelli Magnum 3v |
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Gerrelt Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2004 Posts: 682 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:04 am Post subject: Re: Official Mexican / Brazilian Beetles - All years |
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Yeah, if it's 5 mm, don't worry.
Also, these cars where not designed on a computer, so a difference in a left and right fender is perfectly normal. They will not be a perfect mirror image.
IMHO, measuring a hight difference should not be done in reference to the fender, but to a point on the chassis. _________________ homepage
_________________ |
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RedBug99 Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2016 Posts: 22
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Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: Official Mexican / Brazilian Beetles - All years |
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When looking for parts for my '99 Mexi-Beetle I've found that most suppliers don't list my vehicle in their categories. That said, is there another vehicle that I can safely substitute when parts shopping? For example, is my bug considered a Standard or Super beetle? Help! |
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hopkin Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2012 Posts: 2469 Location: Ottawa, Ontario
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Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: Official Mexican / Brazilian Beetles - All years |
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You can use Wolfsburg West (WW) or cip1 for lots of parts, some of the parts are shared with the watercooled cars (mostly electronics).
I get asked the question a lot at shows, I usually answer that 80% of the parts are the same as an older German Beetle, 10% are the same as the 90s era watercooled cars and 10% of the parts are unique to the car. I have no idea of that is accurate, but it nicely illustrates the similarities and differences.
The car is a bit of a 'bastard' of parts compared to the late 70s Standard Beetles, but most are parts available. You may have to substitute part numbers as VW of Mexico renumbered some of the parts without changing the design.
For example your car is swing axle, so the rear suspension parts are the same as a pre 68 Beetle and the front are the same as a '70s standard Beetle.
Some of the parts that are unique to the car are the fuel pump, exhaust, front brakes (although similar to the Ghia, not 100% the same).
You can always contact Antonio Trejo if you are looking for something specific and you aren't sure if an older part is a match.
Your roof is not a VW of Mexico mod, have a look at my other thread for info on that:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8421614 _________________ 1971 Super Beetle (past)
1971 Super Beetle (past)
1974 SunBug (past)
1972 914 (past)
1991 Honda Civic (Original Owner)
1996 'Open Air' Mexican Beetle (current)
2015 Golf (current)
2017 Dune Edition (daughter's car) |
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