HELP- pulley bolt broke off completely! SOLVED

[tfelzq]

With the engine in neutral, while rotating to TDC, I completely broke the pulley bolt:

It goes here...

Has anyone fixed this before? If so, I'd love to hear how. I'm suspecting having to remove alot of the fan housing...

[mustard675]

Woops! You're going to have to drill the remainder out. To get the drill in there will be tricky. Might want to consider one of those Right Angle drills to get in there. After it gets drilled out you'll need to chase the threads with a tap in the correct size to make sure it's all out of there. Preferably a Bottom Tap.

Might be worth trying a spiral flute extractor first. However if that breaks in there then you've got even more of a problem. Hit it with penetrating oil first and two fingers of bourbon for you.
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1987 VW Vanagon Westfalia
@peanutbutterwestytime

[doctorsemaphore]

I have actually had great luck placing a small dab of JB weld (or similar) on the end of the broken bolt, carefully fitting it back in to snug up, allowing it to cure. Then carefully unscrew the bolt as a whole! Remember, with the stress relieved, the broken-off end is likely loose in the treaded hole and won't have much resistance - good luck!

[MarkWard]

Bummer. I don't recall that bolt being serrated like yours. I would remove the blower blade. The three other bolts. Then see if you can get the blower blade hub off of the crank shaft. You may find you have some of the bolt hanging out of the end of the crank shaft. With patience you might be able to "walk" the bolt threads out even if they are down in the crankshaft end. A small center punch and a hammer. A magnet too. The more time you spend, the less time it will take. I would resort to drilling last. If you drill, an insert to help hold the bit centered makes for a better job. Patience.
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☮️

[Terry Kay]

Get the pulley out of the way, sit a nut a hair bigger over the remaining broken bolt stub.

Hard weld that nut to the stub, while it's hot get a wrench on the nut.

It'll back right outa there.

Drilling, E-Z outs are the last thing you want to do.
Period.
You'll mess up a lot more than you'll accomplish.
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T.K.

[bluebus86]

that bolt is supposed to be tightened to 22 ftlbs on the type IV motor.
On my type IV I turn it over by the tire when adjusting valves, or timing, I do not turn the motor with that bolt. On my typeI I VWs I use the genrator pulley nut so the motor turns via the belt, on my wasser boxer I use the pulley nut, but on my wasser with the triple water pump, ac and power steering pulley that bolt is torqued to 258 ft lbs not 22 so I know it can handle turning over a tight motor, not so on yours.

yes drill it out and extract. drilling into steel blind deep in a hole with a right angle drill setting yourself up for a non centered, crooked hole. Screw up here can ruin the crankshaft, nessecitation an engine rebuild.

if you remove motor, lay it on its flywheel, then you can use a bubble level to assure straight drilling. use a transfer punch that fits just snug in the hole to assure a dead center location. a regular punch may be difficult to find the dead center, hence use a transfer punch of the correct diameter. This is the way to gain best acess, but it involves a lot of work.

if your lucky, the threads were not damaged much and the piece will thread out easy with an easy out extractor. If not tight even a small easy out may work, negating the need for such a large hole be drilled, and less sensitivity to centering errors. If the piece has buggered threads, then a larger extractor size must be used, so hole drilling percision is more important

now you may also be able to get a straight shot at the hole if you raise or lower the engine by removing some of the mounts with engine supported by floor jack. I dont know if it will clear or not, so maybe this is not an option

now if you use a short transfer punch and have room to hit it, assuring a good center punch mark on the end of piece, you could try an angle drill, start with a small drill maybe 1/8 inch and by brail, find the center punch mark and carefully drill as straight to what you think is right. if you donot need to go deep, all the better as straightness matters more the deeper you have to drill. once pilot drilled to 1/8 inch dia., open it up more. you may need stub length drills for this. also be sure your drill bit is new, a dull or poorly ground one will drift, and make a straight hole impossible. also drill steel at low speed, save the high speed setting for wood work, low speed is esential for steel, as is oil and or coolant. steel is so tough to drill that if run too fast, the drill will heat up too much and loose its hardness
same for aluminum, run it slower than for wood, but aluminum in general can be cut 3 times faster rpm than steel. the larger diameter the cutter or drill, the slower you must go, as the speed limit is the surface speed of the outside edge of the cutter, the fastest
point, measured in surface feet per second. so set the drill on slow for this job, lube the drill.


not a fun job access wise, else it would be a piece of pie

good luck


ps if the peice is loosely threaded in place, maybe try a small say 1/4 inch cold chisel, may need to cut it down to clear if engine is in van, but get that chisel in there and wack it, you may be able to get it to bite on the piece, then ypu maybe able to turn it out. give this a go first, you just might be able to back it out if you create a screwdriver type slot with a chisel.
dental picks and such amybe used to help turn the piece to thread it out, I have removed bust studs this way also, try to catch the pick(s) on ridges at the break surface, and turn the piece out.
likewise a soft copper drift could be wacked into the broken surface, conforming to it, if the surface is jagged or has steps, the drift may lock in place to allow a loose piece to be backed out.
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022

[Terry Kay]

Take a chissel and btf the bolt off in a rotational knock out procedure.

Be sure to get that magnetic bubble on the chisel so you'll know you're holding it dead nuts straight.

Only two things will happen.
(1) nothing
(2) you'll screw the crank up.

One of the two.

Be sure you got a 5 lbs sledge or a claw hammer to whack the chisel.

Forget welding a nut to the broken bolt end.

That's just a dream.
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T.K.

[Ahwahnee]

Geez - we really should have some sort of code like: [/sarcasm mode on]

I hope you go slowly and start with the least violent approach. Good luck.

[bluebus86]

you wack the chisel with finesse. this method will work if the piece is finger tight loose, in which case very little wack will be required for it to grab. if you have to wack it hard to grab, the piece is not loose enough for this method. this method along with dental picks or a soft drift can be very effective at removing a loosely threaded piece without damaging the crank. sure wack it with a heavy hammer and you can deform things that should not be deformed. duh!!!!

you could screw up with a weld repair too, opps hit the welder a bit too much and now the piece is fused to the crank, anyone got a small grinder?????

jee wizz, always use finesse when dealing with motors
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022

[tfelzq]

[bluebus86]

yeah, a good sharp chisel, biggest that will fit, give it a little wack where it seems to grab best in counter clockwise rotation. as mentioned, dont wack it too hard, and see if that is enough to be able to turn the piece. since you appear to have good access now, if chisel, or picks dont work in turning it, drill in the middle after center punch, use small drill first, and use an ez out type extractor after final drilling to correct sized extractor.
good luck
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022

[Terry Kay]

Boy, will he thank you a thousand times when that E-Z out snaps in that crank.

I'd be done already.
The nut would have been welded to it & outa there already.

Get an air chisel on it, and work it around.
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T.K.

[buspor63]

We've all had that happen at one time or another. Yes, I've broken EZ Outs off in parts rendering them useless. Another time I bought a screw extractor from Ace Hardware, branded Ace but I'm sure made by someone else. It was a left handed drill bit on one end and a tapered left hand wedge screw on the other, it didn't work either. The one thing that did work another time was Mig welding a bolt onto the broken bolt. I may have had to give it a couple of tries, but the heat breaks the bond. Good luck, save the crank.
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Imagine that, theres not an "h" in either Westfalia or Syncro?

[djkeev]

Here is a helpful link.....

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=575480&highlight=

In that situation I would either weld on a nut to the stub or drill a small hole for a thread tap.
But.......
Use a LEFT handed tap.

If it doesn't spin out easy someone applied a thread locker to it, you WILL need heat to soften the thread locker.

Dave
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert

[Wildthings]

You could try the trick of using a Dremel with a cut off wheel to cut a slot in the broken end of the bolt so you can use a screwdriver to turn the bolt out. As others have said, it will probably not take much torque to get the bolt to spin out. A left handed drill bit would also be a good place to start.

A small chisel and an 6-8oz hammer should be all you need if you go the chisel route, no need to try and fight big tools into a restricted space.

On my Bay with the fan guard off, I just grab the fan with my hands to turn the engine over, no need for anything fancier. I do realize that access to a Vanagon Type 4 engine is more restricted though.

[Abscate]

That looks too deep for a Dremel - maybe a tiny bit that you router a slot vs a wheel?

I think I would try an EZ out here, but you need to limit the force to something low like 50 ft lb if you don't want to take the engine out.

Also warm the end of crank to hot to touch, but not too hot to melt the oil seal (I think I remember Type IV case is rear seal, not slinger, right?)
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.ssS!

[danfromsyr]

when difficult to get a nut on to weld,
I often will weld a washer on 1st. then a nut to the welded washer..

the small lincoln MIG is nearly the most useful tool in my shop.


but I'd try the JB weld a bolt/bit to it 1st.. then get more aggressive from there.
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[Abscate]

Changing my tune on this one.

Weld a 1/4 inch rod with a nice 8 inch L on the end, three spots on to end of shaft - then douse with PB, then crack it and spin it off.

IF clearance is tight, use a threaded end and remove the handle after the bolt slackens.

No risk, no fuss.
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.ssS!

[stevey88]

If you do not have a welder but you do have a reversible drill, the easier way is to drill it out with a left hand drill bit. It will probably unscrew itself out after less than a minute.
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Steve

87 Westfalia full camper 4 speed

[jberger]

When a broken bolt is recessed a little bit like that, I like to keep putting little tack welds on the tip. They build up over time and you can then slip a nut over the tit and weld it on. Given the location I don't know if you could even try a left hand drill bit. I would do everything I could to find a friend who welds somewhat competently, if I did not.