Just look at the basics sometimes

[jjvincent]

A friend of mine called me the other day because his 2001 EV wouldn't crank over. So, he did a search n the internet and ended up replacing that ignition switch and the park relay. Didn't fix it. So he bought the shifter switch in the transmission. So, before removing it he wanted me to help because he's paranoid about the transmission. So, I agreed that we'd pull the pan, change the filter along with an oil change in addition to the switch. He was convinced it was the switch. I did ask him to check if the indicator in the instrument cluster moved when he moved the shifter. It did but he wanted to change the switch.

This is an old time guy who has a few vanagons that he's always working on but his EV is like a mystery because of all of the computers on it (he's scared of computers). So, I got over there and asked him if he had just done a test to the starter itself. He didn't because he thought he was going to burn up a computer or something. So, I opened the hood, reached down and pulled the trigger wire on the starter. Took a wire and he'd it on the terminal and had him put it on the positive terminal of the battery. It sparked a tiny amount and did nothing.

So we pulled the belly pan and removed the starter. Guess what, it was just the starter and it looked like this:

In the end, sometimes you need to just look at the basics. I changed my starter out a few years ago because it looked just like that and I didn't want to be stranded somewhere. He got an exchange from Advance for $120. Now it starts.

[Joshwa]

That's pretty east coast crusty.
_________________
93 Weekender TDI conversion (AHU)
93 MV TDI conversion (1Z)
Weekender rear cot
Late model cabin air filter on 93
Euro spec bumper install on 93

[Scottn59c]

You guys should have seen the one I pulled from my EV - it looked quite a bit nastier than this one. Shoulda taken a picture for kicks. It must have been those salty winter roads in Wisconsin.

jjvincent, your buddy's lucky he has you as a pal. He could have spent even more trying to figure out the root of his problem.
_________________
Farfignewton!

[jjvincent]

Actually I have no idea why it's so rusty and most of it's from the inside out. My 2000 Jetta with 200K on it has a starter that looks perfect. My one neighbor that didn't listen to me about his 2002 Jetta with the 24v VR6 (he thought it was the cam sensors when I told him it was the chains, thus it ended up bending all of the valves). When they pulled the motor out, the starter looked just fine (that car had 185K on it).

It just confuses me that owning two VW's at the same time and one is older and way more miles, but it has a rust free starter yet the other was a disaster a few years ago. Both have a similar Bosch starter. The design has been around since the early 80's and I have had plenty apart. If anything an Audi 5000 should have rusted out because it's on the firing line for snow and salt. A 944 is even worse because it's right at the bottom of the bellhousing.

Even this EV, it's got 85K on it and is pristine. No rust anywhere, yet the starter looked like it came from the Titanic.

BTW: This guy is an old time machinist and made plenty of molds for me years ago. So, he bailed me out plenty of times. He's retired, so I got to help him out.

[Itsamoto]

There must be something about the EV - getting tons of water into the engine bay that promotes the advanced corrosion -- I've seen it on my own vans' starters. I don't know why it is, perhaps a lack of engine covers at the wheel well or running without the belly pan on?

What's the preventative remedy? Clean off all the terminals, coat in dielectric grease and put a heat-shrunk boot on them?

[Joshwa]

You're just not leaking enough oil to keep the rust out. One little oil leak and it seems to make its way all around in there.
_________________
93 Weekender TDI conversion (AHU)
93 MV TDI conversion (1Z)
Weekender rear cot
Late model cabin air filter on 93
Euro spec bumper install on 93

[gakali]

[boostin20v]

[jjvincent]

It's pretty easy to change. After you remove the belly pan, all you need is a deep 16mm and regular 13mm socket (along with whatever extensions you come up with). They come with a bushing but I never change it because it's not wore out and the chance of damaging the new one is really good. Just put a dab of grease in the bushing (I just use my trusty 30 year old tube of Bosch points grease).

One thing I do know was when I changed mine out (it was still working) the new starter was much quieter. I know from years ago that a cleaning and relube of the internals does quiet them down. That was back when I had like 10 starters and would build a good one for my car from those parts. I did screw up one time by mixing a 944 starter with a Audi 5000 one. When I went to put it on my 5000, I had the wrong one way clutch in it. Thus it just spun and did nothing (a 944 is mounted on the opposite side of the flywheel as compared to a 5000).

[d-9]

Tell him to relax, you can give those computers a lot of abuse. I've not cooked one yet, it's only a matter of time, but they are tough you're totally correct about starting with the basics, always start simple, then look at the earth's, then worry about sensors and electronics.

I haven't found a direct correlation between the appearance of a starter and wether it works, although it doesn't surprise me that one doesn't, although if you stripped the solenoid and cleaned the connections it probably would work for a while longer.