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Hiramhaus Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2006 Posts: 666 Location: IC
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 2:24 pm Post subject: 1983 Mk1 Cabriolet fuel injected - fuel problem |
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Hi,
I have a 1983 Mk1 with a fuel issue. I pulled the fuel filter and found nothing was making it to the front of the car. I should have checked the Relay first, but I didn't. I went to the back and found that the "Fuel Accumulator" was bad by removing the screw on the bottom and fuel squirt out.
I then ran the fuel pump and nothing came out. So I replaced both the fuel pump and the fuel accumulator and the fuel pump relay for good measure.
Now, I had to up the idle to get it to idle without magic feet. Then when I get up to 2500 RPM it starts bucking, and if I floor it, it dies altogether.
If I just shift at 2400 its seems fine, just won't rev over 2500
any ideas? _________________ 1969 Ghia
2016 Audi Q3
Last edited by Hiramhaus on Sat May 20, 2017 9:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12848 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:39 pm Post subject: Re: 1983 Mk1 Cabriolet fuel injected - fuel problem |
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The fastest that I ever got one to spin was about 9,000rpm. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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crsmp5 Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2013 Posts: 301 Location: ohio
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 4:16 am Post subject: Re: 1983 Mk1 Cabriolet fuel injected - fuel problem |
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so you put a new tank in it or had the old one cleaned out of any rust?? if not new fuel pump will be toast first time you fill it up...
if the pump, accumulator were bad... what mystical place do your unicorns blow rainbow farts?? if you the cis system is good?
so now with your trusty fuel pressure gauge.. if you lack this.. just put every thing you own in a pile and burn it.. start doing diagnostics... else throw money at it till you hate life and set it a fire
you can build a gauge.. the one you need is over $100 to buy... else under 30 to build.. cannot buy from advance/zone type big box part stores.. they only sell the wrong one..
if you did not remove the rust from inside the fuel tank... stop.. remove the new pump... hope the rust silt has not found its way in yet... else buying new pump as bosch does not cover this... and no other pump on the market will ever let it run correct... next question.. bosch pump right?? time to sell the copper from your house to buy one if not... also buy a 1983-1988 audi 4000 pre fuel pump filter.. 25-35$ each... its plastic and goes between the tank and the pump.. it will catch the rust silt nothing else does.. most other filters cannot flow the gal/min flow that pump sucks... that filter is made for it.. just room sux.. but it will fit.. do not pinch off the hose any way is hardest trick.. ive done this and it works... then x stole car.. i went removed filter one night to be a dick.. and next day dead car she sold to a guy i knew.. i put in new pump/filter and till he totaled it a few years later no issue.. top of tank had rust that sloshing gas would silt into the pump _________________ [url=http://cdn2.driiive.com/7037.jpg]Click to view image[/url] |
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Hiramhaus Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2006 Posts: 666 Location: IC
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: 1983 Mk1 Cabriolet fuel injected - fuel problem |
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I pumped the fuel out of the tank through the sender hole. It looked very clean inside when I looked with a flashlight. Someone suggested that I feel the relay while it's bucking to see if it's clicking. _________________ 1969 Ghia
2016 Audi Q3 |
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crsmp5 Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2013 Posts: 301 Location: ohio
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 4:26 am Post subject: Re: 1983 Mk1 Cabriolet fuel injected - fuel problem |
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go get 2 male spade terminals... 3" of wire... put it together... this is vw tool #1 to own... it will be in glove box for life... trust me...
the 2 terminals that make a T shape... stick that tool in.. fuel pump will be running as long as the tool is installed... so will kill batt if installed... but eliminates relay 100% for testing purpose... you will also need to do this when you use the fuel pressure gauge you NEED.. if you refuse to do that... just burn it to the ground...
those relay #s should be 30 and 87.. but they make a T shape.. all ya need to know.. but doing that on "any" relay that has a 30/87 jumps past said relay... be a 2014 gm (has micro relay so no T but has #s) or a 78 vw.. those 2 numbers seem to do it.. standerized i guess thru car markets... ford uses 1, 2, 3.. type #s so no count.. but they use the T
was the top of the tank.. mirror required new looking?? sloshing gas across the top of the tank is what id worry bout.. if its brown.. the rust color washes into the gas.. then into the rollers of the pump bearig locking it up.. silt... its bad bad.. _________________ [url=http://cdn2.driiive.com/7037.jpg]Click to view image[/url] |
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Hiramhaus Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2006 Posts: 666 Location: IC
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Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: 1983 Mk1 Cabriolet fuel injected - fuel problem |
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Link
In getting variable electricity over 2,500 RPM _________________ 1969 Ghia
2016 Audi Q3 |
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Hiramhaus Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2006 Posts: 666 Location: IC
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Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: 1983 Mk1 Cabriolet fuel injected - fuel problem |
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I don't think they match.
Tried to make a jumper but my spade connectors are too small.
I'll try again tomorrow with some larger. _________________ 1969 Ghia
2016 Audi Q3 |
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kamzcab86 Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008 Posts: 7916 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: 1983 Mk1 Cabriolet fuel injected - fuel problem |
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A) Make sure the car's main grounds are either new or cleaned exceptionally well, and that the secondary grounds are shiny clean.
http://www.cabby-info.com/electrical.htm#Ground
B) You cannot simply adjust the idle on K-Jetronic, nor should you willy-nilly mess with air-fuel mix. Read this and do all the tests in it:
http://cabby-info.com/Files/AdjustingAirFuelMixture.pdf
C) As for the fuel pump relay:
_________________ ~Kamz
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子 |
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Hiramhaus Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2006 Posts: 666 Location: IC
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 7:57 am Post subject: Re: 1983 Mk1 Cabriolet fuel injected - fuel problem |
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Thank you, I believe that answered my question.
The old one is on the left - you can see the rust on the board.
The numbers are not the same "056" but it appears there is a difference between my new one and the one in your images above.
_________________ 1969 Ghia
2016 Audi Q3 |
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kamzcab86 Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008 Posts: 7916 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 11:42 am Post subject: Re: 1983 Mk1 Cabriolet fuel injected - fuel problem |
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Hiramhaus wrote: |
it appears there is a difference between my new one and the one in your images above. |
Different manufacturers. KAE is the most commonly supplied for fuel pump relays, hence using KAE in that image. I can't say whether your new one is faulty out of the box due to incorrect circuitry, but it's certainly a possibility.
As for jumping the fuel pump relay, the easiest thing to do is just use the horn relay; no need to bother with a jumper wire unless you want to.
Hiramhaus wrote: |
The old one is on the left - you can see the rust on the board. |
Yikes! If that's what the relay looks like, I'd take a really good look at the CE1 (relay) panel; it's possible it's internally corroded as well, which can cause all sorts of electrical-related issues. _________________ ~Kamz
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子 |
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Hiramhaus Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2006 Posts: 666 Location: IC
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: 1983 Mk1 Cabriolet fuel injected - fuel problem |
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I found the KAE brand with the number from the pics you gave me above. It will be here Thursday morning. Tonight I'll give that horn relay a shot at it as my horn does work.
I need to grow my neck out or something - getting under there to see anything seems nearly impossible, my arm is always in the way and I need my arm to grab the relay. _________________ 1969 Ghia
2016 Audi Q3 |
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kamzcab86 Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008 Posts: 7916 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: 1983 Mk1 Cabriolet fuel injected - fuel problem |
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Hiramhaus wrote: |
I need to grow my neck out or something - getting under there to see anything seems nearly impossible, my arm is always in the way and I need my arm to grab the relay. |
I removed the front seat when I had to work up under there (removed an alarm system), but that was also back when I practiced yoga regularly.
A more in-depth method for better/easier access is to remove the kneebar. Instructions found in here: http://www.cabby-info.com/Files/DashRemoval.pdf . _________________ ~Kamz
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子 |
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Hiramhaus Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2006 Posts: 666 Location: IC
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: 1983 Mk1 Cabriolet fuel injected - fuel problem |
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HONK HONK HONK HONK
horn relay works fine
I revved it up just fine, i got a bunk relay _________________ 1969 Ghia
2016 Audi Q3 |
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kamzcab86 Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008 Posts: 7916 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 10:39 pm Post subject: Re: 1983 Mk1 Cabriolet fuel injected - fuel problem |
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Hiramhaus wrote: |
horn relay works fine
I revved it up just fine |
Right on! _________________ ~Kamz
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子 |
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crsmp5 Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2013 Posts: 301 Location: ohio
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Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 3:24 am Post subject: Re: 1983 Mk1 Cabriolet fuel injected - fuel problem |
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get ride of kneebar and add mk1 jetta cubbies... then it comes off with 4 easy to get to screws... fusebox in wide open...
80 only jetta door panels in my 84 coupe... if you wonder bout the odd white stripe.. panel goes from glass to bottom of door.. vs the 2 part kind they went too
see relay on fuse box? thats a ce2 set up i had in a 81 jetta why hard to see
except grey relay. fuses were pointed down.. i had a cage in the car and the cubbies no fit.. but unique option/different look
no cubbies required in above pic due to
filling the gap the knee bar makes... early german rocco/bunny-option... if you have ac get one for ac so has ashtray/lighter there if you require.. id add lighter and keep cubby as perfect spot for cell phone... will have to trim a non ac one to fit a ac heater box... only plastic.. use og one as template on where to cut..
lots of wtf is that in those pics... feel free to ask... my cars.. my creations.. _________________ [url=http://cdn2.driiive.com/7037.jpg]Click to view image[/url] |
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Butcher Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2015 Posts: 1285 Location: Right Here
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Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 7:52 am Post subject: Re: 1983 Mk1 Cabriolet fuel injected - fuel problem |
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crsmp5 wrote: |
get ride of kneebar. |
Knowing it's a Cabriolet and not a Rabbit, I would not remove the kneebar. It's part of the support structure because the top is missing. The car is flexible enough, no reason to make it worst. |
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kamzcab86 Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008 Posts: 7916 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 9:46 am Post subject: Re: 1983 Mk1 Cabriolet fuel injected - fuel problem |
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crsmp5 wrote: |
get ride of kneebar and add mk1 jetta cubbies... |
See the darkened areas:
?
Those are structural reinforcements of the Karmann-built unibody in order to make up for a lack of a rigid roof.
Removing the kneebar permanently just so you can have easier access to a relay panel that, once sorted out, you will rarely be accessing is removing a structural component of the car, which is an absurd idea. _________________ ~Kamz
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子 |
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Hiramhaus Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2006 Posts: 666 Location: IC
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Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 7:39 pm Post subject: Re: 1983 Mk1 Cabriolet fuel injected - fuel problem |
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How long / far can a guy drive worth a jumper in? I'm thinking for now it needs a switch in the middle now.
The second carefully ordered relay was no good. I have another coming tomorrow but have little faith.
I'm hoping to go 180 miles round trip this weekend and order one long distance to get a proper one.
Any opinion (I know to not leave the pump running - that killed my last one) _________________ 1969 Ghia
2016 Audi Q3 |
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Hiramhaus Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2006 Posts: 666 Location: IC
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Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: 1983 Mk1 Cabriolet fuel injected - fuel problem |
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And the new one was wrong, going to order the long distance one. I made the drive up 90 miles to go. _________________ 1969 Ghia
2016 Audi Q3 |
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ps2375 Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2014 Posts: 2471 Location: Meridian,ID
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Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 10:04 am Post subject: Re: 1983 Mk1 Cabriolet fuel injected - fuel problem |
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The thing with the jumper is to remember it is in there when you shut the car off and get out. If you forget about it, you have a good chance of draining the battery if you leave it for a long enough period of time with the pump running. |
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