Trailing arm help

[sstech]

So i recently purchased a sand rail and it needs a new front beam. i want to do coil over front suspension and was thinking of doing a through rod set up but im having trouble finding info on what trailing arms to use or if i can use my stock ones some how

[sstech]

[veeweeman]

You can use your stock arms, the only mod you need to do is weld a thick washer on the ends.

[sstech]

sweet and do you know if theres any threads on here about doing that? im relevativly new to the vw world

[Vanapplebomb]

I would not do coil overs and thru rods on a ball joint front end. That lower ball joint facing up is stressed enough as is. Coil overs would make that situation even worse because it would place ALL of the supporting stress on that lower ball joint rather than splitting the supporting load between the stock upper and lower torsion bars.

Also, I don't know if you realize just how expensive coil over shocks are. Expect to pay $200 + for each shock. That 4-500 bucks for shocks alone. You won't get any extra travel for your money because the limiting factor are your ball joints articulation...and you will have further weakened the weak link of the ball joint front beam. That's a very expensive downgrade!

Now if you were to do a link pin conversion, now you can talk coil overs, etc.


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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[sstech]

yea good quality coil overs arnt cheap and what would you recommend then still going the coil over route?

[Vanapplebomb]

I wouldn't run coil overs with the type of suspension you have. It's just asking for a ball ripped out of the lower socket. Seriously, with what you have it is pointless and an expensive downgrade.

But if you really really really have this thing for coil over socks...

A link pin suspension is the only reasonable way to go. You would have to do a conversion to link pin from ball joint, and it isn't a simple swap out. They are different and it requires a good deal of work and $$, but the upside is you can build up a wild suspension with them if you want to.

What are you trying to build? That may help us give you better feedback.
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[sstech]

the front bean i have is gonna need to be replaced the guy i bought the rail from hit a stump and put a nice bend in the lower tube so i was thinking of welding up a new one or just buying a new beam. Its street legal so i want something i can take on the road but also in the woods im looking for about 10" of travel. if i have to abandon the ball joint so be it the only reason i was thinking that was to try and save some $$ but its sounding like it'll end up being more expensive

[sstech]

im also not married to the coil over idea just a thought

[Vanapplebomb]

Your frame clamps are set up for the ball joint beam, so that is what you have to work with unless you buy a conversion beam and link pin accessories, or you cut up and re-weld the frame to fit a link pin beam.

Being 100% honest with you, although the link pin has more potential for future expansion, the ball joint beam can be made very strong with minimal work. Also, 10" of travel is not necessary for street and woods use. You would be surprised what a beefed up stock suspension can handle. Look at some YouTube videos of class 9 desert race buggies. They have a ball joint front end just beefed up. I doubt you will abuse your ride like a class 9 race buggy.
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[sstech]

ok sweet thanks for the help

[Vanapplebomb]

Search for "hook and rod stop" here on the HBB OffRoad forum. Adding that to the ball joint beam makes a world of difference. No need to repeat it here. Lots of info on the forums about that.

Have a good holiday weekend!
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[dustymojave]

Good advice Van. I would say the same, except for the addition of pointing out that the ball joint beam is limited to about 5.5-6" of travel by the ball joints themselves, while I have 10.25" of wheel travel in my Baja with the original link pin beam with simple and inexpensive mods (as long as you can do such fabrication yourself). But as Van pointed out, a link pin beam doesn't fit where a ball joint beam came out of.

The best solution for the OP here would be a BugZilla conversion beam. That beam has the torsion tubes spaced wide apart to fit where a ball joint beam fits, but uses link pin trailing arms and spindles. Unfortunately, the owner/operator of BugZilla Fabrication passed away earlier this year, and I'm not aware of anyone picking up his torch to make them.

Tweeds used to make link pin conversion arms for ball joint beams, but hasn't offered them for many years.

Just don't be misled by seeing cheap EMPI coilover shocks on the fronts of buggies. As shocks, they aren't worth the ink to type this post...For street or dirt.
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Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[veeweeman]

I saw the ball joint to link pin beam on Appletree's website, they have them their. I know this cuz I wanted to get one for my '70 pan...but decided on swapping out the front clip was way cheaper...it was free!

[oldschool5er]

[quote="dustymojave"]The best solution for the OP here would be a BugZilla conversion beam. That beam has the torsion tubes spaced wide apart to fit where a ball joint beam fits, but uses link pin trailing arms and spindles. Unfortunately, the owner/operator of BugZilla Fabrication passed away earlier this year, and I'm not aware of anyone picking up his torch to make them.

Berrian Buggy (ACME) still makes a conversion beam.

[dustymojave]

[quote="oldschool5er"]

[Vanapplebomb]

Berrien Buggy had gone all sorts of funky since the original owners in Michigan retired and sold the business to Acme. Acme took a good website and made it pretty much useless for parts. Don't bother with the website, just phone them up during business hours.
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[dustymojave]

I agree Van. They HAVE worked on it some over the past year or so. But they've left off with it still not right.

C'mon Acme! A good website will sell more product and keep your customers happy and willing to spend more $$ with you.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[sstech]

Ive got some pretty good fabrication skills i worked in a metal shop for about 2 years and how easy is it to build a beam? from what i can tell and have researched it looks like they can be made out of 2" pipe with 1/4 wall unless im missing a detail

[gunslingertom]