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regeland
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2012
Posts: 7
Location: Chicago
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 Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 5:52 pm Post subject: Trans rattles, road speed dependant |
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Hey all, need some help please
73 SB, 1600cc stock 4 speed. Trying to improve shifting.
Changed the shift coupler and bushing in the tunnel. Changed trans oil. Checked trans mounts.
Shifts WAY better but, now the trans rattles. Sounds like it is coming from the nose cone.
Clutch in or out does not change anything. Definitely road speed depandant.
p.s. still hard to get to 2nd some times. Must be less than 10mph. That may be how it is designed.
Any suggestions?
Thanks in advance
Roger
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12721
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: Trans rattles, road speed dependant |
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Hi Roger, welcome to The Samba!
Do you think there was a possibility that the rattle was there before, but now you're hypersensitive? I've been there, done that, got the t-shirt………
Is the rattle more obvious in the car (windows up) or outside the car (windows down)?
After touching the shift coupler or bushing, it is necessary to do a reverse lockout plate adjustment. (It's also called the "stop plate" online, but I don't understand why it's called that…) Did you perform this adjustment according to a service manual of some kind? (Hint: it involves putting the shifter in 2nd gear and adjusting that way…)
I garuntee there is no "designed in" difficulty on a vintage German automobile. If you can't shift with two fingers, something is not as designed. You could 1-2 shift a new VW with a pinky, and you still can, if the owner has kept up on maintenance.
Thanks for joining us; now help us help you and let me know the answers to the above…
Good luck!
Robbie
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Tim Donahoe
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012
Posts: 11740
Location: Redding, CA
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: Trans rattles, road speed dependant |
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What transmission oil did you put in the trans.? And did you pump it in slowly?
Tim
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regeland
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2012
Posts: 7
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 9:46 am Post subject: Re: Trans rattles, road speed dependant |
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| Tim Donahoe wrote: |
What transmission oil did you put in the trans.? And did you pump it in slowly?
Tim |
Thanks Tim.
Valvoline 75W90 full synthetic. Filled it slowly, took it for a test ride and checked the level again. No problems there.
Roger
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regeland
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2012
Posts: 7
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 9:52 am Post subject: Re: Trans rattles, road speed dependant |
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| asiab3 wrote: |
Hi Roger, welcome to The Samba!
Do you think there was a possibility that the rattle was there before, but now you're hypersensitive? I've been there, done that, got the t-shirt………
Is the rattle more obvious in the car (windows up) or outside the car (windows down)?
After touching the shift coupler or bushing, it is necessary to do a reverse lockout plate adjustment. (It's also called the "stop plate" online, but I don't understand why it's called that…) Did you perform this adjustment according to a service manual of some kind? (Hint: it involves putting the shifter in 2nd gear and adjusting that way…)
I garuntee there is no "designed in" difficulty on a vintage German automobile. If you can't shift with two fingers, something is not as designed. You could 1-2 shift a new VW with a pinky, and you still can, if the owner has kept up on maintenance.
Thanks for joining us; now help us help you and let me know the answers to the above…
Good luck!
Robbie |
Thanks for the response Robbie!
I can appreciate now being sensitive to it. That is the same story of guys adding oil pressure gauges and fussing on and on about what they can now observe.
The rattle is pronounced inside the car, windows up or down. I reassembled the entire interior thinking maybe it was there before but was muffled.
No, I'm afraid it is still there.
I may just live with it until?
I adjusted the shift gate again per the Haynes manual. Seems better.
Thanks again.
Roger
p.s. The Samba is the BEST resource! It is guys like you who help make this a great hobby.
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David_nc_72std
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2015
Posts: 841
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 10:58 am Post subject: Re: Trans rattles, road speed dependant |
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| regeland wrote: |
Clutch in or out does not change anything. Definitely road speed depandant.
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Just to be clear, you only have the rattle while the car is moving, and not while you are sitting stationary.
Do you get the same rattle in all gears, while moving and while the clutch is disengaged (clutch pedal pushed to floor)? |
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regeland
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2012
Posts: 7
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 3:52 pm Post subject: Re: Trans rattles, road speed dependant |
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| David_nc_72std wrote: |
| regeland wrote: |
Clutch in or out does not change anything. Definitely road speed depandant.
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Just to be clear, you only have the rattle while the car is moving, and not while you are sitting stationary.
Do you get the same rattle in all gears, while moving and while the clutch is disengaged (clutch pedal pushed to floor)? |
Yes, strictly speed dependent. Clutch in or out doesn't change it. No noise until a speed of about 10mph, and then the noise increases with vehicle speed. Definitely from the gear box area.
I'm thinking there is some sort of bearing in the nose for a main shaft? I don't have a blow up of the trans.
Thanks again.
Roger
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VW_Jimbo 
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 9954
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Trans rattles, road speed dependant |
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Can you simulate the noise with the rear end up on jack stands?
If so, pull the axels out, to eliminate the wheel bearings. If the noise is still present you will know it is in the tranny. You could get someone in the car driving it, while sitting on jack stands, and get under it with a stethoscope to listen to the tranny. I use an automotive stethoscope. It has a long metallic rod connected to some clear tubing which connects to an ear piece. Like this one from Amazon;
https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-52750-Stethoscope-Kit...tethoscope
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David_nc_72std
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2015
Posts: 841
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: Trans rattles, road speed dependant |
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| regeland wrote: |
| I'm thinking there is some sort of bearing in the nose for a main shaft? |
Mainshaft would be turning in neutral while stationary, and would vary with engine speed as opposed to road speed, so that wouldn't be my first guess. |
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David_nc_72std
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2015
Posts: 841
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: Trans rattles, road speed dependant |
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| Since you were working with the mounts and changing the transmission fluid, are you sure you didn't shift something under the car that could be rattling against the transmission or drive shafts? Something brushing against the CV joints could make a noise that was related to roadspeed. |
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regeland
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2012
Posts: 7
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: Trans rattles, road speed dependant |
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| VW_Jimbo wrote: |
Can you simulate the noise with the rear end up on jack stands?
If so, pull the axels out, to eliminate the wheel bearings. If the noise is still present you will know it is in the tranny. You could get someone in the car driving it, while sitting on jack stands, and get under it with a stethoscope to listen to the tranny. I use an automotive stethoscope. It has a long metallic rod connected to some clear tubing which connects to an ear piece. Like this one from Amazon;
https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-52750-Stethoscope-Kit...tethoscope
Great idea with the stethoscope!
Thank you
I was able to isolate the noise originating in the left rear brake.
The parking brake lever was/is rubbing on the inside of the brake drum.
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regeland
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2012
Posts: 7
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: Trans rattles, road speed dependant |
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Problem solved..
lug nuts to long. Hitting the parking brake cable ends, barely.
Thanks for the help!
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BIGMIKEY
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2007
Posts: 1104
Location: North East Pennsylvania
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12721
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:20 am Post subject: Re: Trans rattles, road speed dependant |
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| regeland wrote: |
Problem solved..
lug nuts to long. Hitting the parking brake cable ends, barely.
Thanks for the help! |
Thanks for following through with an update!
Did you ever get the second gear engagement any easier?
Robbie
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regeland
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2012
Posts: 7
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: Trans rattles, road speed dependant |
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Thanks Robbie.
What I learned is to shift "short" by which I mean low rpm. Seems to work like a champ that way. There is no tachometer to compare shift points. The only way to "run fast" is in fourth gear.
I think that is just the way it was built and supposed to be used. Drive it like a diesel at low rpm. Lessen learned.
Roger
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