Starter wiring prognosis?

[epowell]

The starter works fine, but last year on our trip to Italy in the Summer sometimes it would not start (not connect) when the engine was hot. Then one day after a long mountain drive the throttle cable's (which was incorrectly routed over the starter solenoid) plastic shielding wore thru and touched the starter solenoid BOOM! ...sent an electrical wave down the throttle cable and melted the sheathing... I replaced the throttle cable and off we went.

One month ago I replace the throttle cable sheathing with a SS pipe 8mm OD.

Now it is finally time to have a good look at this starter. I am at Moron Status when it comes to starters so please don't hesitate to mention obvious things you might assume I am already aware of, because I am probably not.

Please disregard that weird little dead-end coolant hose.... a bit of PO memorabilia.

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www.edwardpowell.com

[bluebus86]

Rusty connections at the terminals may not be helpful for electron flow.

if your key switch is weak (like old house wires) the addition of a hot start relay may help you.


good luck
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Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022

[danfromsyr]

X's 2 on the starter relay addition.

I (we) also like to add a ground cable from the starter
from the starter to bellhousing bolt to the frame/chassis with cleaned and electric greased surfaces.

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[Terry Kay]

You can all of the relays you want, first thing I would consider is to get all of the starter terminals & wire connections clean.

This I don't think warrants the question.

Replacing all of that antique wiring to the starter would be an excellent move first, right up front.

Not doing so is asking for more problems.

Preventative maintenance.

[Sodo]

Heres a couple images I found on TheSamba

This is what you HAVE: The old key switch can no longer supply the 30 amps to give the starter a kick in the pants. It can supply a little, but not enough.

This is what the relay does. The $5 relay requires only a little current to throw it's big, new, internal switch. Adding the relay gives the starter the full 30 Amps kick in the pants. Basically it lets you keep all the old wiring, old ignition switch, and questionable connections.

There are several different relays you can use that all do the same thing but are wired just a little different. Note that relay terminals almost always have the same little terminal label numbers, 30, 85, 86, 87, (sometimes 87a un-used). The terminal number labels are molded into the relay, and are tiny, but almost ALWAYS there.

It's a great band-aid with a high chance of success. It's not a hack, its n upgrade. All modern cars use this system, to prevent exactly the problems you are having. It's a little surprising the Vanagon had no starter relay even into the '90s. But of course you should clean every connection you can find, cuz the upgrade depends on on the old wires, old connections, old switches passing SOME current.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[epowell]

[Sodo]

[epowell]

[epowell]

[Sodo]

Its simple parts, low cost. Here it is at BusDepot in kit form with instructions. https://www.busdepot.com/wr1

Here it is on Amazon http://a.co/4FSKpK7

Can prob get it all at the autoparts store.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[epowell]

[Terry Kay]

It's the old wiring, battery cable etc that draws big amps because it's old.

Change that wiring, the van will start like new.
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T.K.

[Sodo]

EPowell I recommend you change every wire in the whole van! In the year 2027.

But this upgrade should serve you well. The next problem which is always on the horizon, is the starter. FAR FAR better off hoarding a new starter if flush with cash cuz it's a required component of limited lifetime. Wires can last almost forever if not a terribly corrosive environment.

However if this $5 upgrade DOESN'T work, you will next have to
1) check/clean all connections and inspect the wires
2) consider your starter is dead
3) change the big battery wires (ground and positive).
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[bajaleo]

Where does conventional wisdom suggest mounting the relay? Nearer the ignition switch, or nearer the starter?
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Leo in San Juan Capistrano
1984 Wolfie Westy, Subaru EJ22 powered.

[crazyvwvanman]

Near the starter, on the firewall, in a spot where you can see it.

Mark

[epowell]

[Italjohn]

You could also install an starter button like I did.
It will save your ignition switch as well


Link

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Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/italjohn/

[atomatom]

[fxr]

[Terry Kay]

What do you call old?
Any vehicle that is older than 15-20 years old, outside 24/7/365 has old wiring running to the starter ( one prime example FYI ) and requires new wire from the batteries to the starter.

This is exactly why some electrical madman side stepped rewiring the starting circuit and using a power relay.

I invite Ed to take a box knife and cut into the insulation of the power wire , I bet he finds the copper wire is green or black under that insulation offering much larger amperage requirements to activate the solenoid & starter.

Seen it too often to bow out , say OK man, you're totally correct.

Show me one of these vans that is newer than 15-20 years.

Eds Van is an 82, and been in a hermetically sealed garage?

Please.
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T.K.