Aluminum High top design

[Deedee22]

[3dig]

[snwbrdr435]

That clam style tent option would be awesome if you could get at it from inside!

[3dig]

Just completed the aluminum front bumper at mtbakermetal.com
Rear bumper assembly comming soon.

[3dig]

And the rear bumper!

[Aryana]

I like the shape/design of those bumpers. Great job

[Theslowdutchman]

I just found this post. In the beginning of the thread you are looking at the Reimo top. I have this top. If you want more information or details about it...let me know.

Btw: the official name is: Reimo Primus zwitterdach.

[3dig]

[jimf909]

[3dig]

Link

[atufte]

I'm in the process of building this for my original Pop top Westfalia Club Joker. It will mount in the original pop top mounts with just a rubber edge like the original pop top. (so it's reversible to to mount the original pop top again)

I do love my pop top but since I live in Norway, and camp all the way through the harsh Norwegian winter, the is a far better option to keep the heat and save energy...

All the best

Alex

[Steve M.]

[DuncanS]

Just discovered this fascinating thread and read every word and would like to add a few thoughts. I'm a tin topper, but would love to whack a hole in the roof. Owned an '87 factory sunroof and it was fabulous, but not a high top.

It was interesting that after going through >10 iterations the consensus essentially came down to the Weinsberg/Tigerbus--which I also like.

However---I'm 5' 8" and with a little clearance I could build one that would be ~4" lower which IMO would keep the her from looking quite so boxy and help some in cross wind gusts. But my main thought would be to build it with the following technique which I've used successfully several times. I'm also a boat builder, but in wood and fiberglass.

Take a bunch of 1" urethane foam--not foil faced and cut the panels to fit right in place. With body putty, they would be assembled to create the actual top. Radius the corners to mimic the T3 tin work and cover the whole shebang in epoxy and biaxial cloth (poly over the roof and car first to prevent drips of frozen snot). Make about 5 transverse plywood sections that closely fit the outside, tab them in place with 2" pieces of glass tape every 18" or so. Then tie those together with three 2 x 6's longitudinally to create a rigid exoskeleton to maintain shape. Pull the top off and lay on sawhorses upside down and glass the inside. Once cured, flip it over and rip off the ply, fair the glass work, prime and paint. Ditto inside. What you now have is a stress skin structure that would be lightweight--<100#--rigid, insulated and inexpensive. ~$500 in materials and supplies. No drumming either with wind noise or rain. In addition it would be warm inside and not sweat in cold weather. Probably under a week's work to this point. A reinforcing bottom perimeter needs to be fabricated for fasteners to hold 'er in place. Windows or not to suit. I'd go to my marine consignment store and get a marine aluminum, salt water storm leak proof, plexiglass topped hatch for around $150 (24" square) and slap that in the roof over the standing area. Oh, you'd need to put another layer of cloth and resin over the rear luggage area and build in some hard points for rails or whatever you might want to nail down up there. Another week or two depending on how fancy you want to be. I wouldn't need to have a lift top, but anything could be done once you have the shell.

If there's time this Spring, I'll get some 1/4" luan ply and mock it up.

Duncan

[yiucycle]

I had similar idea to with foam and got this newsletter email from fiberglasssupply.com and saw their post on stitch and glue hightop.
I always want a high top for my van but couldn't justify the cost and hassle(driving to the installer).
Like what you mention, no insulation is need once you fiberglass the foam.

I copy and paste their post here:


For example Pat here has a 4x4 Syncro Vanagon that he wants to put a high top on, so why not build one out of plywood using stitch and glue techniques? Or even composite panels using those techniques? That way he could get it done pretty quickly and without making expensive and time consuming molds.

High Top Panels exploded

Breakdown of a stitch and glue joint, it doesn't show the glass tape or cloth that would go on the outside of the joint.

So there is some food for thought. What would you build?
_________________
1980 2.8LV6 Fiero ASI/Riviera Vanagon
"there is no point in being embarrassed of all the stupid shit i done and will continue to do"

Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[DuncanS]

I don't want to hijack this thread, so admins, if you think we should start a new one that's fine On the other hand, this has generated a great deal of interest with 14 pages over a number of years and it might be helpful to those who were interested, but couldn't swing the cost or tech issues in dealing with aluminum. So for the time being I'll just keep going--OK?

Stitch and glue is a time honored tradition and works well for amateur builders. Another advantage for panalised construction is that a computer can generate the shapes full size. Just cut 'em out, drill a whole bunch of holes, twist a whole bunch of #14 bare copper 4" segments to pull the parts together while the fillet and glass cloth on the inside cure. Then you grind off the outside sharp corners (the extra copper vanishes at this point), and put the outside glass on.

Thoughts on that---The fillets and cloth go on the inside corners first and if the panels are on the roof, access will be kinna tough. The thing has to fit at the rain gutters, so trying to do this off the car and get it right would require some serious jigging. Secondly, you won't get the strength with a single thickness of ply (and you want to keep it thin for weight) even with glass on the outside. There is no point in having glass on the inside other than at the joints as it won't add to stiffness, or strength, but will add to the weight. I don't know about you guys who Tigerbus the bejesus out of the roofs with spares, solar water tanks and other stuff, but remember the old quote, "These things corner like an over ripe tomato!" And that's without anything on the roof.

I'll admit I simplified the process a bit, but it is simple with foam and glass. First, the foam doesn't have to fit perfectly. A hand saw will cut urethane foam at the rate of 4" a second (no joke) so it won't take long to do that part. Then you take a tennis ball wad of body putty and mush a two grape amount into the joint every 18" with a flexible 1" putty knife. When that goes off (by the time you get to the next panel) you squirt some spray foam insulation into all the joints where the fit ain't so great. Don't put much in as it expands and can force the seam open. Wait an entire couple of days and then grind the extra blobs away It can remain gooey inside for a while--maybe take some off and let the sticky stuff inside dry before the final grind. At this point, put a 6" wide lightweight glass tape over all the joints. When hard, you can go back with lightweight fairing compound and make the curves and seams really nice and fair before the top layer of biaxial. Yes, you'll need to fair again after that as well, but it helps to get the major lumps and bumps out first as you WILL go through in a few spots, but the biaxial will take care of that.

I'm convinced that this is THE best way to get a quick, inexpensive, LIGHTWEIGHT AND STRONG top. There are people all over the place who know fiberglass boats and repair and could assist with a case of beer or two if you are uncertain.

Duncan

[alaskadan]

I agree with you. In our cabinet shop we do a lot of laminate work. I've often touted that a foam and aluminum laminated truck canopy would be easy and strong. Aluminum angle reinforcements at seams ( inside the sandwich). Your idea sounds solid too. I'd be a stickler though and kerf the insides of the foam in order to bow all the panels out and give it some curve and not just flat planes. Only necessary if foam was thicker than an inch maybe. How thick of foam are you thinking?

I hope to make a removable high top for a sunroof van someday. Aluminum was what I figured on, using an aircraft/airstream type of riveted construction. The roof of a parts van sitting on sawhorses will definitely be in order.

[DuncanS]

One of the strong design statements of 3dig's top was that it utilized the quasi military planar forms of the Vanagon by combining subtle angle changes on the sides and keeping the slope of the windshield and tail gate. I thought a really brilliant move was to have the plane of the panel directly over the windshield continue the curve with it's upper seam so the piece has parallel sides. This is on page 12 of the post. On page 3 there is a blue line seam drawing showing a two plane side where the seam meets the lower front panel at the plane change and continues all the way aft. I like this as it breaks up the slab look that shows on page 14 of the Vanapalozza. I personally like the two plane side where the break turns into the luggage/freight deck. Weinsberg/Tigerbus almost has this. In my luan mockup I'm going to have them exactly line up and I want to give the high part of the roof some crown to help lower the sides a bit as well. The plan is to have most of the windshield curve at the forward end, but then have it gradually become slightly flatter. The side/top joint will be radiused the same as the factory roof transition at the gutter to help make it look like that's how it left Hannover (and it will as I live in the town of Hanover). I'll go to a flat for the luggage deck so stuff will be easier to keep from sliding overboard.

1" foam as it will give maximum rigidity and very good insulation, but not steal too much volume from the interior. 3/4" would probably be OK and easier to bend, so that might be the option for the forward and top planes. Will do some experimentation. If it becomes necessary to kerf, then I'll use 1" throughout and make a female ply mold. With the curves now defined, toss a layer of glass on the inside first to stabilize the shape prior to the body putty stage.

Your notion of a parts van roof on sawhorses is fabulous. That way you don't have to build staging all around and the epoxy drips won't matter. My car is a daily driver so not having to tie it up or keep moving the staging will be helpful. And I know just where to get the donor top.

One topic I haven't mentioned is the joint with the roof. I'm a wood worker, so will probably saw up some 3/4" thick ipe or other dense rot resistant wood and fit it to the roof The outer glass would then lap down onto the wood which would be about a inch high. The inside cloth would do the same. Since ipe is so dense (sinks in water) glues and epoxy won't really bond as there is no chemical penetration into the wood. So once upside down with the inside glassed, I'll run a 6" wide layer of cloth lapping onto the glassed sides over the wood encapsulating it. Ipe is so tough it can be tapped like metal and bolts up from underneath would really hold it in place. If it never has to be removed I'd recommend 3M 5200 which is a marriage for life. 5200 CAN NOT be removed without destruction of the parts it joins.

Duncan

[OddN]

[Gruppe B]

Does anyone have a good link to a seller of polyurethane core foam in 1" and 1/2" that will ship small quantities?

The only urethane foam available around here is the paper covered for bituminous roofing.

I want to add an additional 20" above the existing Westy poptop so that I can stand and still pop the top (build ontop of the existing fiberglass poptop so the tent and hinge doesn't have to be re-engineered)

As discussed in earlier threads to lift bar will have to go as it will block the highroof opening when closed.

[Gruppe B]