What's the real world handling loss going to 11/2" lift springs?

[IdahoDoug]

I've never met Ocean and don't know him at all, but I think I can help interpret his question about the tire wear reply.

By the time you notice enough rubber worn off a pair of tires to the point you can see a wear pattern, you have damaged the tires. So, I think Ocean is probably thinking "He can't be serious - run my misaligned front tires until I see which way to adjust the alignment? Really?"

So he asked for clarification because it doesn't seem like a logical reply. Fair enough?

Doug
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[jimf909]

Perhaps relying on front tire wear as a diagnostic for suspension issues is similar relying on a spun rod bearing as a diagnostic for oil pressure issues: too little, too late.
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- Jim

[insyncro]

Tire wear well tell you everything that you need to know.

A perfect example...........

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1919226

200 miles after assembly.....looks good now....and for sale.
What do you think the tires will show in lets say 1500 miles?

Look at the head on picture

FYI 1.5" springs and ball joint spacers is the setup.

[jimf909]

Closing the loop...

I've had zero-lift Syncro.org/Schwenk 2WD springs installed along with Rancho shocks and new front end bushings, including steering rack, for about 6 months and nearly 10k miles and I really like the results.

Initial lean when cornering or dive when braking is noticeably reduced. Highway cruising at 70-75 mph is stable and comfortable (the van has been driven in 16 western and mid-west states in good winds from all directions).

I'm not sure if the 1 1/2" lift springs would be notably worse but I prefer the great ride I have right now compared to a minor increase in clearance at the cost of reduced on-road handling characteristics.

Edit: Adding that the van is shoed with Nokian WRG3 215/60 R16 tires. I also like these tires a lot for their quiet, smooth ride.

That's all. FWIW, YMMV.
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- Jim

[IdahoDoug]

Jim,

That you are happy with this setup onroad speaks volumes. I think you dodged a bullet by not putting a lift on. You were questioning it, so you are the type of driver who would have noticed that with a lift your vehicle exhibited odd figure 8 movements on curvy country roads, and see-saw motions it previously did not have, or sideways heaves called 'head toss' in the industry. So bravo on a good call.

People routinely under appreciate the challenges in vehicle dynamics that a lift brings. Often they replace worn out springs and shocks with new versions that provide a lift and things feel "better". Without knowing what new stock-height springs and shocks would have felt like (perhaps better yet), they conclude they have lost nothing. It is a significant challenge to lift a vehicle's center of gravity only 1.5 inches and maintain vehicle manners. So much of a challenge that it costs a factory development team enormous sums in time, energy, equipment use and data analysis to return the vehicle to as close to original handling as possible.

So I wish you many more happy and safe motoring miles in your beast!
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[timichango]

[jimf909]

[levi]

Glad that you found a combination that you like.

Any idea of your typical running weight ?

For the record, since the 1-1/2" lift springs were mentioned earlier in this thread, I had 3 sets of them, all sagged, and the last set were at 16-3/8" when I pulled them, for a sag of nearly 2" from install height.

My van is always at least 4500# and sometimes hits 4900-5000 lbs.
_________________
One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way

https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40

[jimf909]

I haven't weighed the van since I got the high-top but it was about 4,700# with the pop-top, racks (4 bars which was overkill), basket and box, i.e. I don't believe the high-top added much weight. I'm hoping to weigh it soon fully loaded for a trip.
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- Jim

[MFerioli]

Timichango, I'm currently gathering parts to rebuild my suspension with those same components right down to the wheels and tires. I've had the tires from the get go and agree that they are super quiet for a more agreessive looking tread than a normal street tire. I put the rear schwenk springs in the other day just as an early test to see the difference in rear height and performance. They brought my saggy bottom up to 17 1/8 both sides and greatly reduced body sway from highway winds. This is compared to original 28 year old springs of course.

The only thing I haven't decided on is a shock, its got KYBs of unknown age on it right now. Are you running the standard bilstein or a modified version like XHD that gowesty advertises?

Glad to hear your positive review of your setup, thanks for posting.
_________________
1989 Westfalia full camper, 2WD, 4-speed, 2.1 WBX

[jimf909]

[levi]

Thanks Jim, I appreciate that.
_________________
One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way

https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40