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hylomatt Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2016 Posts: 378 Location: Florida
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Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:51 pm Post subject: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear |
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I have a 1966 Ghia with some items that make me think it's been mixed with a 67. It has 4 lug disc front and 4 lug drum rear. It also has a later model straight thick shifter and matching shift rod. It has the trim across the center of the dash but that trim is not Chrome it's black. It also had black knobs on the dash like a later model Ghia. In addition to this someone put a later model dash pad in the vehicle but I think that's obviously a mismatched part since it has the impression rather than the grab handle.
Can someone weigh in on whether the disc front drum rear might possibly be stock for the 66? I'm tempted to go through the effort of switching it back to 5 lug drum all around. I've just completed an over 8 hour trip from Florida to North Carolina, during which I spent most of the time trying to read everything I could find. I did find mention of one guy whose wife has a 66 with a similar setup but not really verification of whether it was actually stock or not. |
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Era Vulgaris Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2012 Posts: 1662 Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear |
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Are you sure the pan hasn't been swapped with a later pan?
What's the VIN on the center tunnel? _________________ Currently own:
66 Karmann Ghia, L390 Gulf Blue, under construction, here: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760505&highlight=
99 Mazda MX-5 10AE, Sapphire Blue Mica, 6 speed, LSD
Previously owned:
98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L -- 67 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp -- 98 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I6 -- 75 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc -- 72 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI -- 74 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp -- 74 Triumph TR6 with O.D., sapphire blue |
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hylomatt Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2016 Posts: 378 Location: Florida
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Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear |
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So since the car is in Florida and I'm in North Carolina at the moment I can't get the number off of the pan. I verified the body as a 66 using the VIN tag that is riveted inside the bonnet. It's 146605040. A chassis swap has occurred to me. Were the disc brakes on a 1967 4 lug or they also five lug like the 66? The disc brakes that are on there I've had a good look at and I can't find any VW symbols stamped on the caliper. The caliper does bolt 2 the spindle and not a bracket though. |
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Era Vulgaris Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2012 Posts: 1662 Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear |
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67 was four lug and discs up front.
I believe the stock caliper was the single pin ATE until '71. Then they went to 2 pin ATE. And then to 2 pin Girling sometime in late '72 (someone correct me if any of that's wrong).
Could be the calipers on your car are aftermarket. As far as I know 66 should be 5 lug drums all around. _________________ Currently own:
66 Karmann Ghia, L390 Gulf Blue, under construction, here: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760505&highlight=
99 Mazda MX-5 10AE, Sapphire Blue Mica, 6 speed, LSD
Previously owned:
98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L -- 67 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp -- 98 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I6 -- 75 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc -- 72 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI -- 74 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp -- 74 Triumph TR6 with O.D., sapphire blue |
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hylomatt Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2016 Posts: 378 Location: Florida
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Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear |
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The calipers are 2-pin. I just replaced the pads a few days ago because one of them was metal on metal. The pad must've separated from its backing plate.
The only id I've found on the caliper is a code like ATO6E. I think. Sorry, doing that from memory. |
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Era Vulgaris Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2012 Posts: 1662 Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:41 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear |
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Just curious, but is your trans IRS with CV joint axles, or is it swing axle with axle tubes? If you have an IRS trans, then I would say high likelihood of a pan swap. _________________ Currently own:
66 Karmann Ghia, L390 Gulf Blue, under construction, here: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760505&highlight=
99 Mazda MX-5 10AE, Sapphire Blue Mica, 6 speed, LSD
Previously owned:
98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L -- 67 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp -- 98 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I6 -- 75 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc -- 72 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI -- 74 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp -- 74 Triumph TR6 with O.D., sapphire blue |
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hylomatt Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2016 Posts: 378 Location: Florida
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Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear |
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Yeah sorry I should've included that. It's a swing axle transmission. |
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ghi66 Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2010 Posts: 69 Location: Caldey Island
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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:29 am Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear |
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Hi, i'm in the UK, i'm restoring a RHD '66 Ghia which was originally imported from South Africa. Mine has 4x130 all round, discs front drums rear. I'm figuring that maybe it was close to the change over from 5x205?? Anyhow just to confuse anyone who owns it down the line i'm changing it to 5x130 with 17" Fuchs all round haha.. |
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hylomatt Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2016 Posts: 378 Location: Florida
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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear |
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well i checked things and found the chassis code starts with 148. so that's what's going on. it's a 1968 chassis. i'm a little disappointed. i took a 15yr break from the hobby and i got rusty enough that i forgot to check everything.
so as the situation stands now, i can either complete what the PO started and make everything 66 except the chassis or just accept things as they are.
anyone have an opinion regarding this situation? |
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Era Vulgaris Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2012 Posts: 1662 Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear |
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I suppose it depends what your long term goals are.
If it's a car you're going to keep for many years, then the enjoyment you'll get from the car should outweigh any 'incorrectness'.
If it's a car you bought with the intention of restoring and selling, then it might just be best to sell it as is before putting any more money into it, and move on to a different project. _________________ Currently own:
66 Karmann Ghia, L390 Gulf Blue, under construction, here: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760505&highlight=
99 Mazda MX-5 10AE, Sapphire Blue Mica, 6 speed, LSD
Previously owned:
98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L -- 67 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp -- 98 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I6 -- 75 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc -- 72 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI -- 74 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp -- 74 Triumph TR6 with O.D., sapphire blue |
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hylomatt Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2016 Posts: 378 Location: Florida
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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear |
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thanks for responding again era. my long term goal was to have both. to keep it and be accurate. i derive much pride and satisfaction from that. i'm not really a "cut bait" kind of person though. for someone as pedantic as i can be about the accuracy of things, now i've found myself with a conflict of conviction vs available funds vs time & effort.
also, i felt some pride that i had purchased and restored this vehicle for below it's value, unlike my first SB in HS. what does something like this do a car's value? how common is this?
i realize and apologize for seeming a bit down about this. i love this car and i'm not sure what i should do for her. i would think, given the audience, there's room for a little bit of emotionalism regarding the hobby.
i'll attach a few pics of her so you can see what i'm working with.
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hylomatt Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2016 Posts: 378 Location: Florida
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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:35 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear |
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jeez, putting all of this out there and then posting those pictures makes me feel a little silly. she's a beautiful specimen, if i can say so myself, biased as i most assuredly am. all is not lost. i know this. i'm just might be obsessive and a little overly-consumed regarding the importance of accuracy.
i'll post a pic of the dash that i was talking about in my first post though. so maybe someone can give their opinion on the trim and if it was ever done like this.
you'll see the two ivory knobs on the far left. those were black, flat and wide knobs but i started putting 66 parts back in place.
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Era Vulgaris Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2012 Posts: 1662 Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear |
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Man, that is a really good looking car! Definitely something you can drive and feel proud of.
Pan swaps do happen. Obviously for someone looking for a 100% correct '66 it'll be an issue. For someone looking for a really good condition car to enjoy, maybe not.
The only thing that could be a real issue would be, which VIN is on the title. The reason I bring that up is because some states are "frame" states, and some aren't. So for example, when I import an out of state car into NC, the VIN on the title has to match the VIN on the pan/frame because NC is a "frame" state. So if I tried to buy your car, and the VIN on the title matched the body but not the pan, I'd have a hell of a time getting it registered. Some states are like NC, and some aren't. So just something to be aware of.
As to the dash, as far as I know the trim was chrome plated plastic. Much like when chrome plating begins separating from bumpers and people paint them black, it could be what happened to your dash trim if the chrome started to peel away from the plastic. But I'm not an expert on '66 cars, so take that with a grain of salt.
Since you have a '66, which should have the same air cleaner as '67, do you have the pre-heat hose hooked up? I'm trying to figure out how much the pre-heat flap on the air cleaner should open up. Here's my unanswered thread about it: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=680566 _________________ Currently own:
66 Karmann Ghia, L390 Gulf Blue, under construction, here: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760505&highlight=
99 Mazda MX-5 10AE, Sapphire Blue Mica, 6 speed, LSD
Previously owned:
98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L -- 67 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp -- 98 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I6 -- 75 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc -- 72 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI -- 74 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp -- 74 Triumph TR6 with O.D., sapphire blue |
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Mellow Yellow 74 Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2014 Posts: 1615 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:25 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear |
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That KG looks great the way it is. I am restoring a 62 that has four lug wheels with a bolt on disc brake conversion on the front and I am going to leave it like it is. When it comes to safety related things like brakes, tyres, seat belts etc I personally don't care if it is not original. But I am doing stuff like repairing the hacked DIN stereo hole in the dash and the non standard headlight buckets back to original, so each to their own. _________________ 1962 Karmann Ghia
1974 Deluxe Microbus
1985 Caravelle (Vanagon) |
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hylomatt Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2016 Posts: 378 Location: Florida
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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear |
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thanks for the kudos all. i feel better already i'm having the wheels painted black right now. i didn't know this but after looking at the color info for this year, i found they're supposed to be L41 black. so black it is. she'll be off blocks before next weekend!
after that, i'm thinking a set of these would look nice: https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=ZVW34WW
Last edited by hylomatt on Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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iowegian Samba Curmudgeon
Joined: February 16, 2005 Posts: 9826 Location: Somewhere between Dubuque and Keokuk
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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear |
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A fine looking automobile. So the numbers don't match-------so what? Who knows, or even cares?
You don't have to explain a thing to anybody until you are talking to a serious buyer.
As far as your plans: I believe the dash would look better with the horizontal '66 trim in a silverish color.
Also, bright trim in the front and rear windscreens will make it "pop".
hylomatt wrote:
thanks for the kudos all. i feel better already Smile i'm having the wheels painted black right now. i didn't know this but after looking at the color info for this year, i found they're supposed to be L41 black. so black it is. she'll be off blocks before next weekend!
after that, i'm thinking a set of these would look nice: https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=ZVW34WW
An absolute "YES" on the Beauty Rings. Otherwise black wheels and blackwall tires doesn't do it for me.
Last edited by iowegian on Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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hylomatt Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2016 Posts: 378 Location: Florida
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Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear |
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yes i agree it would look better. i purchased an aluminium set from copellos that is really nice. i didn't get the radio face plate though. i might try to track that down from him.
i was thinking of having the plastic pieces re-electroplated though.
and yes, iowegian, those window rubbers. when i had it painted, they forgot to ask me and put in the euro trim. i'm going to swap those out too. it will make a big visual difference, especially because the trim is so wide and obvious. |
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c21darrel Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2009 Posts: 8206 Location: San Dimas
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Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:37 am Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear |
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Super nice looking car. There is a lot to like there! Enjoy it, examine it and find out how 66 it is and how 68 it is. 66 was already a ball joint car so the only up front change is spindles and disc. 68 had a longer casting on the end of the axle tubes also a Z-bar set up. I am going to guess most of the body is 66. It has the right interior door opener and 66 lock. The correct chrome ashtray and looks like an original Bambus tray under the dash. The dash cap is 68+. The radio is a later Sapphire. 66 should have a red lighted emergency pull switch. More pics, its a pretty cool car and easy to go back to original or enjoy what you have. Congrats!!
_________________ GhiaBuild
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=481184
1967 DC build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=693583&highlight=67+dc
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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hylomatt Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2016 Posts: 378 Location: Florida
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Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:43 am Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear |
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thanks c21darrel. it has the long swing axle castings and the z-bar setup. i've already ordered a dash pad replacement. just the 66 one from cip1. we'll see how it looks. the radio works but it's am only and so i rarely turn it on.
i did some research on that emergency knob and it seems it was optional. is that incorrect? i have no emergency flashers in the vehicle. no hole or mounting point that i've located as of yet. i'd add one if i can get my hands on a nice one like yours |
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c21darrel Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2009 Posts: 8206 Location: San Dimas
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