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1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear
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hylomatt Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:51 pm    Post subject: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear Reply with quote

I have a 1966 Ghia with some items that make me think it's been mixed with a 67. It has 4 lug disc front and 4 lug drum rear. It also has a later model straight thick shifter and matching shift rod. It has the trim across the center of the dash but that trim is not Chrome it's black. It also had black knobs on the dash like a later model Ghia. In addition to this someone put a later model dash pad in the vehicle but I think that's obviously a mismatched part since it has the impression rather than the grab handle.

Can someone weigh in on whether the disc front drum rear might possibly be stock for the 66? I'm tempted to go through the effort of switching it back to 5 lug drum all around. I've just completed an over 8 hour trip from Florida to North Carolina, during which I spent most of the time trying to read everything I could find. I did find mention of one guy whose wife has a 66 with a similar setup but not really verification of whether it was actually stock or not.
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Era Vulgaris
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:58 pm    Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear Reply with quote

Are you sure the pan hasn't been swapped with a later pan?
What's the VIN on the center tunnel?
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1966 Karmann Ghia, under construction
1998 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L overhauled by Jake Raby SOLD!
1967 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp, 4 lug steelies SOLD!
1998 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I-6, 17" factory wheels SOLD!
1975 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc DRLA40's, 5 lug fuchs SOLD!
1972 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI, 5 lug fuchs SOLD!
1974 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp, bullet turn signals, steelies SOLD!
1974 Triumph TR6 with O.D., metallic blue, stock everything SOLD!
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:02 pm    Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear Reply with quote

So since the car is in Florida and I'm in North Carolina at the moment I can't get the number off of the pan. I verified the body as a 66 using the VIN tag that is riveted inside the bonnet. It's 146605040. A chassis swap has occurred to me. Were the disc brakes on a 1967 4 lug or they also five lug like the 66? The disc brakes that are on there I've had a good look at and I can't find any VW symbols stamped on the caliper. The caliper does bolt 2 the spindle and not a bracket though.
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Era Vulgaris
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:15 pm    Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear Reply with quote

67 was four lug and discs up front.

I believe the stock caliper was the single pin ATE until '71. Then they went to 2 pin ATE. And then to 2 pin Girling sometime in late '72 (someone correct me if any of that's wrong).

Could be the calipers on your car are aftermarket. As far as I know 66 should be 5 lug drums all around.
_________________
1966 Karmann Ghia, under construction
1998 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L overhauled by Jake Raby SOLD!
1967 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp, 4 lug steelies SOLD!
1998 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I-6, 17" factory wheels SOLD!
1975 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc DRLA40's, 5 lug fuchs SOLD!
1972 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI, 5 lug fuchs SOLD!
1974 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp, bullet turn signals, steelies SOLD!
1974 Triumph TR6 with O.D., metallic blue, stock everything SOLD!
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:23 pm    Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear Reply with quote

The calipers are 2-pin. I just replaced the pads a few days ago because one of them was metal on metal. The pad must've separated from its backing plate.

The only id I've found on the caliper is a code like ATO6E. I think. Sorry, doing that from memory.
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Era Vulgaris
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:41 pm    Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear Reply with quote

Just curious, but is your trans IRS with CV joint axles, or is it swing axle with axle tubes? If you have an IRS trans, then I would say high likelihood of a pan swap.
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1966 Karmann Ghia, under construction
1998 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L overhauled by Jake Raby SOLD!
1967 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp, 4 lug steelies SOLD!
1998 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I-6, 17" factory wheels SOLD!
1975 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc DRLA40's, 5 lug fuchs SOLD!
1972 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI, 5 lug fuchs SOLD!
1974 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp, bullet turn signals, steelies SOLD!
1974 Triumph TR6 with O.D., metallic blue, stock everything SOLD!
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:43 pm    Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear Reply with quote

Yeah sorry I should've included that. It's a swing axle transmission.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:29 am    Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear Reply with quote

Hi, i'm in the UK, i'm restoring a RHD '66 Ghia which was originally imported from South Africa. Mine has 4x130 all round, discs front drums rear. I'm figuring that maybe it was close to the change over from 5x205?? Anyhow just to confuse anyone who owns it down the line i'm changing it to 5x130 with 17" Fuchs all round haha..
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:44 pm    Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear Reply with quote

well i checked things and found the chassis code starts with 148. so that's what's going on. it's a 1968 chassis. i'm a little disappointed. i took a 15yr break from the hobby and i got rusty enough that i forgot to check everything.

so as the situation stands now, i can either complete what the PO started and make everything 66 except the chassis or just accept things as they are.

anyone have an opinion regarding this situation?
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Era Vulgaris
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear Reply with quote

I suppose it depends what your long term goals are.
If it's a car you're going to keep for many years, then the enjoyment you'll get from the car should outweigh any 'incorrectness'.
If it's a car you bought with the intention of restoring and selling, then it might just be best to sell it as is before putting any more money into it, and move on to a different project.
_________________
1966 Karmann Ghia, under construction
1998 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L overhauled by Jake Raby SOLD!
1967 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp, 4 lug steelies SOLD!
1998 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I-6, 17" factory wheels SOLD!
1975 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc DRLA40's, 5 lug fuchs SOLD!
1972 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI, 5 lug fuchs SOLD!
1974 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp, bullet turn signals, steelies SOLD!
1974 Triumph TR6 with O.D., metallic blue, stock everything SOLD!
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hylomatt Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:15 pm    Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear Reply with quote

thanks for responding again era. my long term goal was to have both. to keep it and be accurate. i derive much pride and satisfaction from that. i'm not really a "cut bait" kind of person though. for someone as pedantic as i can be about the accuracy of things, now i've found myself with a conflict of conviction vs available funds vs time & effort.

also, i felt some pride that i had purchased and restored this vehicle for below it's value, unlike my first SB in HS. what does something like this do a car's value? how common is this?

i realize and apologize for seeming a bit down about this. i love this car and i'm not sure what i should do for her. i would think, given the audience, there's room for a little bit of emotionalism regarding the hobby.

i'll attach a few pics of her so you can see what i'm working with.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:35 pm    Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear Reply with quote

jeez, putting all of this out there and then posting those pictures makes me feel a little silly. she's a beautiful specimen, if i can say so myself, biased as i most assuredly am. all is not lost. i know this. i'm just might be obsessive and a little overly-consumed regarding the importance of accuracy.

i'll post a pic of the dash that i was talking about in my first post though. so maybe someone can give their opinion on the trim and if it was ever done like this.

you'll see the two ivory knobs on the far left. those were black, flat and wide knobs but i started putting 66 parts back in place.

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Era Vulgaris
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear Reply with quote

Man, that is a really good looking car! Definitely something you can drive and feel proud of.

Pan swaps do happen. Obviously for someone looking for a 100% correct '66 it'll be an issue. For someone looking for a really good condition car to enjoy, maybe not.
The only thing that could be a real issue would be, which VIN is on the title. The reason I bring that up is because some states are "frame" states, and some aren't. So for example, when I import an out of state car into NC, the VIN on the title has to match the VIN on the pan/frame because NC is a "frame" state. So if I tried to buy your car, and the VIN on the title matched the body but not the pan, I'd have a hell of a time getting it registered. Some states are like NC, and some aren't. So just something to be aware of.

As to the dash, as far as I know the trim was chrome plated plastic. Much like when chrome plating begins separating from bumpers and people paint them black, it could be what happened to your dash trim if the chrome started to peel away from the plastic. But I'm not an expert on '66 cars, so take that with a grain of salt.

Since you have a '66, which should have the same air cleaner as '67, do you have the pre-heat hose hooked up? I'm trying to figure out how much the pre-heat flap on the air cleaner should open up. Here's my unanswered thread about it: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=680566
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1966 Karmann Ghia, under construction
1998 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L overhauled by Jake Raby SOLD!
1967 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp, 4 lug steelies SOLD!
1998 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I-6, 17" factory wheels SOLD!
1975 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc DRLA40's, 5 lug fuchs SOLD!
1972 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI, 5 lug fuchs SOLD!
1974 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp, bullet turn signals, steelies SOLD!
1974 Triumph TR6 with O.D., metallic blue, stock everything SOLD!
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:25 pm    Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear Reply with quote

That KG looks great the way it is. I am restoring a 62 that has four lug wheels with a bolt on disc brake conversion on the front and I am going to leave it like it is. When it comes to safety related things like brakes, tyres, seat belts etc I personally don't care if it is not original. But I am doing stuff like repairing the hacked DIN stereo hole in the dash and the non standard headlight buckets back to original, so each to their own.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:17 pm    Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear Reply with quote

thanks for the kudos all. i feel better already Smile i'm having the wheels painted black right now. i didn't know this but after looking at the color info for this year, i found they're supposed to be L41 black. so black it is. she'll be off blocks before next weekend!

after that, i'm thinking a set of these would look nice: https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=ZVW34WW


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:17 pm    Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear Reply with quote

A fine looking automobile. So the numbers don't match-------so what? Who knows, or even cares?
You don't have to explain a thing to anybody until you are talking to a serious buyer.
As far as your plans: I believe the dash would look better with the horizontal '66 trim in a silverish color.
Also, bright trim in the front and rear windscreens will make it "pop".

hylomatt wrote:
thanks for the kudos all. i feel better already Smile i'm having the wheels painted black right now. i didn't know this but after looking at the color info for this year, i found they're supposed to be L41 black. so black it is. she'll be off blocks before next weekend!

after that, i'm thinking a set of these would look nice: https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=ZVW34WW

An absolute "YES" on the Beauty Rings. Otherwise black wheels and blackwall tires doesn't do it for me.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:22 pm    Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear Reply with quote

yes i agree it would look better. i purchased an aluminium set from copellos that is really nice. i didn't get the radio face plate though. i might try to track that down from him.

i was thinking of having the plastic pieces re-electroplated though.

and yes, iowegian, those window rubbers. when i had it painted, they forgot to ask me and put in the euro trim. i'm going to swap those out too. it will make a big visual difference, especially because the trim is so wide and obvious.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:37 am    Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear Reply with quote

Super nice looking car. There is a lot to like there! Enjoy it, examine it and find out how 66 it is and how 68 it is. 66 was already a ball joint car so the only up front change is spindles and disc. 68 had a longer casting on the end of the axle tubes also a Z-bar set up. I am going to guess most of the body is 66. It has the right interior door opener and 66 lock. The correct chrome ashtray and looks like an original Bambus tray under the dash. The dash cap is 68+. The radio is a later Sapphire. 66 should have a red lighted emergency pull switch. More pics, its a pretty cool car and easy to go back to original or enjoy what you have. Congrats!!
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:43 am    Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear Reply with quote

thanks c21darrel. it has the long swing axle castings and the z-bar setup. i've already ordered a dash pad replacement. just the 66 one from cip1. we'll see how it looks. the radio works but it's am only and so i rarely turn it on.

i did some research on that emergency knob and it seems it was optional. is that incorrect? i have no emergency flashers in the vehicle. no hole or mounting point that i've located as of yet. i'd add one if i can get my hands on a nice one like yours Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:55 am    Post subject: Re: 1966 Ghia with 4 lug disc front, 4 lug drum rear Reply with quote

cool, 99% of people, even vw people wont know...other than the 4 lug Cool
switchs...looks like a fair price...
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2061872

66 is a pretty unique dash, check out Nicholas's thread. Here is a 66 dash pic showing location.
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