6V to 12V upgrade

[cruizznn]

I recently purchased a 64 Beetle which I have been thinking about changing from 6v to 12v. The parts are older and it probably could use a new battery and really don't want to invest in the worn 6v components. I looked through various posts on the subject. A lot of things I knew and some I didn't. There seem to be a lot of opinions on how to go about different parts of this. I have had a bunch of these old beetles in times past in my younger days and if they started off I went and didn't worry about anything. It won't need a bunch of charging power, just for lights and the accessories and the engine, no radio. My thoughts on what I would do are as follows. I was thinking of using a new bosch GR 15N generator . I had a 70 beetle years ago I drive the heck out of and never had concerns. Charged ok, no warning lights etc. A properly charging system should NOT have a light on at idle, I don't buy the light on at idle as normal. I know the generator stand would have to be changed as well as the pulley and regulator and maybe some wiring redo, no problem. I see no where and I ask people with bugs if the original cooling fan and all mounting plates can be used over. Nobody knows. What exactly would be able to be used over for that 12v generator mounting? This car has a 1500 cc it seems (H5586310) in it which they must have used the 6v flywheel on. Without going through all the grinding and bushing etc, and still buying a new 12v starter, I thought I would use an INI hybrid gear reduction starter. About 1/2 the people say the 6V flywheel with the 6v starter on a 12v system will chew up the teeth and the other 1/2 say no problem, just change the solenoid which some one else says that will make it worse. I would rather not chew it up, and invest in the starter. I asked and I guess no one has used one of those starters either. I know they have the 12v kits for some of this..again, 1/2 the people say they are cheap import and others swear by them. I don't really need the alternator power that i why I thought using the generator. I try to use better products like new bosch too. Not sold on china parts if I don't have to. So am I out of touch with reality thinking of doing it this way? I would just like to know what all I can use over from this stocker to make it work..sorry for the long post and I may have forgotten something. Thanks for any replies

[pwmcguire]

If you are going to change to 12 volt, change your flywheel to 12 volt and use a 12 volt starter. Find a local club for help. You'll probably need a new alternator back plate as well. Its a lot of work if you know what your doing.

[Dan Hiebert]

Nothing wrong with what your planning, but it does seem a tad overthought. Changing 6v to 12v is pretty straight forward. I would go with the alternator, you may not need the power, but alternators are simply a better option. Everything you would need to change for the 12v generator would need to be changed for an alternator anyway. You can even eliminate the voltage regulator, since from what I've seen so far, ACVW alternators are internally regulated. Folks outside the ACVW world do that conversion it all the time. I did it with a '52 Ford truck a while ago, all I did was have 12v internals installed in the old generator, reverse the amp meter wiring (it was positive ground, don't know how 6v VWs are grounded), install a 12v regulator, 12v bulbs, 12v starter solenoid, and a voltage reducer for the wiper motor.

[anthracitedub]

I'd just invest my efforts into sprucing up the 6 volt system.

[rcooled]

[EVfun]

Your car so do what you want but... The only reasons I can see for making an old Bug 12 volts are:
1. The previous owner already did the work (perhaps half assed.) There is no reason to convert a car back except a stock restoration.
2. I need significant 12 volt power for some reason. Perhaps I decide upon big tunes or maybe a fuel injected crank fire engine.

Aside from that I would stay 6 volt because it is already there. No generator, regulator, and stand to change. No starter issues to sort out. No wipers to decide on how to convert. You can just clean up the connections including grounds for $0, or close to it, then make your select upgrades. You can buy modern headlights in 6 volt. My '57 has Bosch assemblies with 55/60 watt 6 volt H4 bulbs. Without a specific need a 12 volt conversion just seems like waste of money to me.
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[consvws]

1/2 the people say you should leave it 6v & just drive it & enjoy it
The other 1/2 of the people..... they convert all their vws to 12v anyway & likely haven't had the opportunity to enjoy a well maintained, stock 6v system.
My stock 6v beetle cranks faster than alot of 12v vws i've heard. All in all, it is your car do what you like

[andk5591]

Doing a 63 or 64 in the next day or so for a customer. I ALWAYS do an alternator when I do the conversion. I like the Bosch AL82N, but have had good luck with a couple of the aftermarket ones.

I just swap the backing plate and use the fan that was on the car. Double check your clearance and add or subtract shims as needed.

Starter - If you are keeping the car and the engine and actually plan on driving it, I would do something with the starter. In my case, I am evaluating the engine and we will decide if they are rebuilding/replacing or its OK as is....
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[tasb]

The charging light being on of flickering at idle can be completely normal. One of the factors is how slow you have set your idle.
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1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc

1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse

[ballbag]

Hi dude, I have recent changed my 65 aussie bug over to 12v. I changed to an alternator with a built in regulator, swapped all the bulbs. I used the original fan and a cheap alternator fan cover that came with it. I ended sourcing an original fan cover though as the cheap one kept bending and the fan was catching.
The 6v starter is still on, it just turns faster and I got a voltage reducer for the wiper motor. The coild and choke have also been changed to 12v. The horn is still 6v, it just sounds like a mouse caught in a trap
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[cruizznn]

does anyone know the exact generator part number to fit the 67 up beetle 12v? I thought it was a GR15N but not sure now. What is the difference between the GR15N and a W0133-1603048?

[bluebus86]

if you can afford it, a generator is more period correct, looks better.
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[Motomazzo]

Just my $.02 - Unless you are tackling a period-correct, bone-stock restoration, I'd go for a 12-volt system with an alternator, and updated wiring. My purist friends actually try to hide their electrical gremlins from me. As if you're not going to run into them on a 50+ year-old car. Time is better spent cruising. Not chasing nuisance electrical issues.
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[rockerarm]

[bluebus86]

[cruizznn]

This 6-12 v thing has drove me nuts. I know all the aspects involved in this changeover. Also I have rewired the rear of the car and cleaned all connections and fuse panel, added ground cables etc..All I need the charging system to do is work the lights, maybe wipers and the engine ignition. I never had any issues with 12v generators in the past and all I want to do is make it like a 67 or 68 with the generator. I bought a used 211B stand and a new tin set . It has a 1500 in it so the larger fan shroud. I plan to use the fan components over. I measured the outside circumference around the 6v which is a touch less than 12" and I found a 67 beetle to check the 12v and it is 13". That would coincide with the stand I bought. I have been to a bug shop and they showed me their 12v generator and it is quite big around. I just want to use whatever it is that a 67 uses but am not sure of the part number to look for. I found a new bosch for 120 bucks gr15N and it shows to fit the 67 beetle, also said 90mm case. Is this what a 67 uses? I saw one place saying that it crosses over to the number in my last reply.

[rockerarm]

Hi. If you are desiring a specific '67-'68 generator the uniqueness of them is the push-on connectors. The later version changed BUT is the same operating generator, a 12v 30amp generator.
All 12v type 1 engine gen stands are interchangeable. You mentioned new tin? Inspect/trial assy and see if it works as many of them flex or made wrong.
The fan. The fan matches the shroud. Sure, the earlier engines had some holes and fewer blades but the dia all fit all the shrouds. At least I thought. The variation is the increased width on the '71 and later shrouds.
I don't know the earlier part number you mentioned but I googled it. The industry standard identifier for the type 1, 12v, 30 amp gen is a GR15X. The X indicates rebuilt. If some supplier is creating some new number system then they, not you or I, should explain it to you.
The bottom line is this is a really easy task to research, buy, install component.
Hope this helps, Bill.

[Karly]

[iowegian]

[txoval]

You could also buy a stock 6V Generator that has been converted to 12V.

That way you keep the stand, fan tins, etc.

Look up user: RickC

Awesome guy, rebuilds generators and starters and does conversions. You won't be disappointed

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds//detail.php?id=1298636