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greggy Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2009 Posts: 92 Location: ohio
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:39 am Post subject: no charge for battery..hm?? |
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I wired up my rail with a rebel wire kit. Im getting voltage from the gen.
Voltage to the regulator. Also getting voltage to battery cables. Still wont charge the battery though. I did not wire in the "dummy" light...Could that be one of my problems I wonder? Thoughts please and I thank you in advance.....p.s battery is good |
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: no charge for battery..hm?? |
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If you're using VW aircooled alternator or generator and a VW voltage regulator, then the idiot light is absolutely necessary. Not an LED. It MUST BE a conventional bulb. Or at least, an LED with a resistor to represent the light bulb's resistance. The bulb provides a complete circuit for the charging system. Without it, it will never charge. If you would rather not have an idiot light in the dash, it can be beside the regulator or wherever else you want. _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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greggy Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2009 Posts: 92 Location: ohio
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:57 pm Post subject: Re: no charge for battery..hm?? |
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Thank you so much!!! That's the ticket. |
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: no charge for battery..hm?? |
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Oh...One more thing...
If the bulb is burned out, the generator won't make power either. _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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Fenix Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2016 Posts: 468 Location: St Louis
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Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: no charge for battery..hm?? |
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dustymojave wrote: |
Oh...One more thing...
If the bulb is burned out, the generator won't make power either. |
This is a contradictory piece of information as many 1/2 of the sources will say what you said, 1/2 will say the light only pertains to Alternators. |
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: no charge for battery..hm?? |
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I learned this from my father back in the generator days. I started out with a '58 Bug which is still mine. When it had about 400,000 miles on it, I converted it to 12Volt with a generator. In the 1990s, I converted it from 12V generator to 12V alternator.. It has had both Bosch internal regulator alternator and Motorola external regulator alternator on it. It now has well over 800,000 miles on it. Under ALL of those conditions, it has needed the idiot light in the speedometer housing to operate.
You might want to question those who say the light is not needed. Like maybe verifying their credentials.
Or maybe...Just try it and see if it works the way I say. Disconnect the idiot light, then start your VW and check if it's charging the battery. _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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greggy Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2009 Posts: 92 Location: ohio
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Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: no charge for battery..hm?? |
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Update...I installed the idiot light. I put one lead to the hot from the starter and one lead to the direct field (aftet abit of trial and error) the light acted like it should have...on when i turned on the key...off when it was running. But it still wouldnt charge. I dissconnected the neg battery cable while the light was off too see where i stood and it still ran. I assumed it was good to go. Then after driving balls out fast (high rpms i mean) it didnt take a charge...Im stumped. Any thoughts? |
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Fenix Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2016 Posts: 468 Location: St Louis
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Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:22 pm Post subject: Re: no charge for battery..hm?? |
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dustymojave wrote: |
.
You might want to question those who say the light is not needed. Like maybe verifying their credentials.
Or maybe...Just try it and see if it works the way I say. Disconnect the idiot light, then start your VW and check if it's charging the battery. |
Credentials are some of the main contributors on here, as well as tech tips on several ACVW specific websites, and two very reputable speedo rebuilders, and a rebuilder who specializes in upgrading the speedos to LED including adding the 100 ohm parallel resistor to the idiot light for alternators cars. |
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Bama Dave Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2015 Posts: 963 Location: Alabama
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Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:07 am Post subject: Re: no charge for battery..hm?? |
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Presuming the wiring is all wired correctly everywhere, I would try a new/different voltage regulator next. _________________ David Richerson
1970 Beetle
1971 Super
1972 Baja
hellthorne wrote: |
First off, I know i made stupid decisions that led to my predicament, so while you are welcome to tell me that I am an idiot for doing the things I did, please know that I am already aware of this. |
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greggy Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2009 Posts: 92 Location: ohio
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Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:05 am Post subject: Re: no charge for battery..hm?? |
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I agree. That is my next move. Thanks guys |
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Fenix Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2016 Posts: 468 Location: St Louis
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Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:34 am Post subject: Re: no charge for battery..hm?? |
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Bama Dave wrote: |
Presuming the wiring is all wired correctly everywhere, I would try a new/different voltage regulator next. |
What voltage is the generator putting out, what voltage is the regulator putting to the battery? Does the system voltage rise above 12v when the car is running?
I don't know what a VW should run at (my gen is dead and will be converting) but most other 12v systems both automotive and Ag that I have worked on usually run in the 13.5-14.4v range when running/charging. That is why LEDs for 12v automotive applications are resistored for 14.5v. |
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Fenix Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2016 Posts: 468 Location: St Louis
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Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:40 am Post subject: Re: no charge for battery..hm?? |
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Here is a comprehensive diagnostic I just found...for an alternator though.
Click on the Voltage Regulator and it shows how to test it and what voltage readings should be expected.
http://www.ratwell.com/technical/ChargingSystem.html#vrtest |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:19 am Post subject: Re: no charge for battery..hm?? |
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greggy wrote: |
Update...I installed the idiot light. I put one lead to the hot from the starter and one lead to the direct field (aftet abit of trial and error) the light acted like it should have...on when i turned on the key...off when it was running. But it still wouldnt charge. I dissconnected the neg battery cable while the light was off too see where i stood and it still ran. I assumed it was good to go. Then after driving balls out fast (high rpms i mean) it didnt take a charge...Im stumped. Any thoughts? |
Huh?... If you have GENERATOR (as stated in first post) with VOLTAGE REGULATOR you connect GEN lamp to terminal #61 of regulator...
If you have two wire ALTERNATOR (as like BOSCH AL 82) you connect ALT Lamp to D+ terminal of alternator, there is no regulator
IF you have ALTERNATOR with EXTERNAL Regulator (Bosch or Motorola AL 78) you connect ALT lamp to D+ at Regulator ...
If GEN or ALT lamp is functioning properly then Generator or Alternator should be functioning...
If you disconnect battery cable and it continues to run Generator or Alternator is functioning , but this test is not recommended with alternator as it lets the "smoke" out...
Also voltage across battery should read about 13.8 to 14.2 volts dc if alternator/generator is charging while engine running...
Driving balls out is not test....
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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Fenix Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2016 Posts: 468 Location: St Louis
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Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:38 am Post subject: Re: no charge for battery..hm?? |
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Just to be sure you have the right diagrams. Just verify the connection location on your ignition switch. On all the 4 prong one on my rail the ST is the center post. As also noted by dale
Edit:
Sorry Dale I posted before you added the pics.
Last edited by Fenix on Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:16 am Post subject: Re: no charge for battery..hm?? |
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Not a problem, all information is useful....... Just keep in mind not all universal ign. switches have terminal functions in same place, one has to wire switch per designations on switch no just following any picture...
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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