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"Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie.
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Boogievan
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:11 pm    Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. Reply with quote

KollynnBlackpaw wrote:


I really don't have the money, time, patience, or equipment to replace a brake line. Can I repair it temporarily with rubber hosing?


Absolutely not.
You may be able to scab together a hose and clamp combo that will appear to do the job, but it would be extremely unsafe and not at all capable of handling the pressures that your brake lines will see.
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KollynnBlackpaw
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:34 pm    Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. Reply with quote

Boogievan wrote:
KollynnBlackpaw wrote:


I really don't have the money, time, patience, or equipment to replace a brake line. Can I repair it temporarily with rubber hosing?


Absolutely not.
You may be able to scab together a hose and clamp combo that will appear to do the job, but it would be extremely unsafe and not at all capable of handling the pressures that your brake lines will see.


I hadn't really thought so, but figured I'd ask. Guess it's time to look ask a shop to fix it.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:02 pm    Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. Reply with quote

You know....just sayin here Very Happy ......you are spending money, huge effort and time....swapping parts, shopping for another car/bus that is just as big ....if not bigger....of a project....polishing ancient dead paint......and working on everything but what the car actually requires to run and be "safely" driven on the road. And you say you do not have the time, money or patience to fix the most important part of the car? Hmmmmm.....

For the brake line.....its fairly cheap to do well by yourself. If the line is solid through the tunnel.....and you have a few inches of clean, non-rusted line exiting the tunnel......just go to the FLAPS.....buy a length of metric tube with a bubble flair (maybe $10-15).....buy a steel compression fitting from McMaster Carr....(about $15 with shipping)
https://www.mcmaster.com/#=1854mj6

Good to 3600 psi.

Then go to Harbor freight and buy a tubing bender....several choices...

https://m.harborfreight.com/tubing-bender-3755.html

https://m.harborfreight.com/1-8-eighth-inch-to-1-4-quarter-inch-tube-bender-94571.html

https://m.harborfreight.com/tube-bending-pliers-95782.html

None of them over $10.....and I would buy the 1/8" to 3/8" tool and the pliers tool.... $20 at most.....because if you find one rusted line it will not be the last. And a liter of DOT 4.

At most you have $55 and two hours of work at most. A shop would whack you for $250 minimum.

Ray
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KollynnBlackpaw
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:14 pm    Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. Reply with quote

raygreenwood wrote:
You know....just sayin here Very Happy ......you are spending money, huge effort and time....swapping parts, shopping for another car/bus that is just as big ....if not bigger....of a project....polishing ancient dead paint......and working on everything but what the car actually requires to run and be "safely" driven on the road. And you say you do not have the time, money or patience to fix the most important part of the car? Hmmmmm.....

For the brake line.....its fairly cheap to do well by yourself. If the line is solid through the tunnel.....and you have a few inches of clean, non-rusted line exiting the tunnel......just go to the FLAPS.....buy a length of metric tube with a bubble flair (maybe $10-15).....buy a steel compression fitting from McMaster Carr....(about $15 with shipping)
https://www.mcmaster.com/#=1854mj6

Good to 3600 psi.

Then go to Harbor freight and buy a tubing bender....several choices...

https://m.harborfreight.com/tubing-bender-3755.html

https://m.harborfreight.com/1-8-eighth-inch-to-1-4-quarter-inch-tube-bender-94571.html

https://m.harborfreight.com/tube-bending-pliers-95782.html

None of them over $10.....and I would buy the 1/8" to 3/8" tool and the pliers tool.... $20 at most.....because if you find one rusted line it will not be the last. And a liter of DOT 4.

At most you have $55 and two hours of work at most. A shop would whack you for $250 minimum.

Ray


I just don't have the patience for brake work under the car after replacing the master with barely much height off the ground. If I had a vehicle lift, sure maybe I'd try it, but I have no room for moving around underneath the space I can make. Yes, I did buy another project, and I'm selling two others. I bought the bus because it means a lot to me, as my mother owned one.

As for money, like I said, still trying to sell two cars.

I also work two jobs and soon won't even see a full day off. Sorry that I'm having to be an adult in some places.

Also let me point out: I'm an extremely inept mechanic. I don't know anything about fabrication and stuff yet, just moving and replacing parts, etc for the most part. I'd rather have it done by someone who knows what the hell they're doing.

I'm more than willing to do things that actually matter for the car - I changed the oil and the plugs, I changed the master, I've replaced two rusted body panels, and did what I could for the brakes. I'm trying, but some stuff is out of my league. yeah, I have done a lot of misc stuff for the car, because it's MY car. Of course I want to make it look nice at the same time.

I AM working on the important things, here.
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:57 pm    Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. Reply with quote

KollynnBlackpaw wrote:
raygreenwood wrote:
You know....just sayin here Very Happy ......you are spending money, huge effort and time....swapping parts, shopping for another car/bus that is just as big ....if not bigger....of a project....polishing ancient dead paint......and working on everything but what the car actually requires to run and be "safely" driven on the road. And you say you do not have the time, money or patience to fix the most important part of the car? Hmmmmm.....

For the brake line.....its fairly cheap to do well by yourself. If the line is solid through the tunnel.....and you have a few inches of clean, non-rusted line exiting the tunnel......just go to the FLAPS.....buy a length of metric tube with a bubble flair (maybe $10-15).....buy a steel compression fitting from McMaster Carr....(about $15 with shipping)
https://www.mcmaster.com/#=1854mj6

Good to 3600 psi.

Then go to Harbor freight and buy a tubing bender....several choices...

https://m.harborfreight.com/tubing-bender-3755.html

https://m.harborfreight.com/1-8-eighth-inch-to-1-4-quarter-inch-tube-bender-94571.html

https://m.harborfreight.com/tube-bending-pliers-95782.html

None of them over $10.....and I would buy the 1/8" to 3/8" tool and the pliers tool.... $20 at most.....because if you find one rusted line it will not be the last. And a liter of DOT 4.

At most you have $55 and two hours of work at most. A shop would whack you for $250 minimum.

Ray


I just don't have the patience for brake work under the car after replacing the master with barely much height off the ground. If I had a vehicle lift, sure maybe I'd try it, but I have no room for moving around underneath the space I can make. Yes, I did buy another project, and I'm selling two others. I bought the bus because it means a lot to me, as my mother owned one.

As for money, like I said, still trying to sell two cars.

I also work two jobs and soon won't even see a full day off. Sorry that I'm having to be an adult in some places.

Also let me point out: I'm an extremely inept mechanic. I don't know anything about fabrication and stuff yet, just moving and replacing parts, etc for the most part. I'd rather have it done by someone who knows what the hell they're doing.

I'm more than willing to do things that actually matter for the car - I changed the oil and the plugs, I changed the master, I've replaced two rusted body panels, and did what I could for the brakes. I'm trying, but some stuff is out of my league. yeah, I have done a lot of misc stuff for the car, because it's MY car. Of course I want to make it look nice at the same time.

I AM working on the important things, here.


Ok....cool.....but just a suggestion for giggles.....take some pictures of the problem. Take those to the mechanic and ask for an estimate.....oh....and post them here too please.

Then look at the mechanics price.....and look at at the price I listed for parts and tools.

Do you have a jack and a jackstand?.....because this should be pretty simple to get room to work underneath.

You can buy an extra piece of straight tube for maybe $5 and practice bending before you bend the new one. Once you even have it bent close to similar.....installing the pressure unions is dead simple. Just trim the end of each tube with a tubing cutter (about $3-5)....screw on the fittings and tighten with two wrenches and bleed. Done.

I point this out BECAUSE you are working two jobs.....just like many of us. Why spend piles of cash when you can do this for under $60 in less thwn two hours.

That's all I'm saying. Ray
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KollynnBlackpaw
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:19 pm    Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. Reply with quote

raygreenwood wrote:


Ok....cool.....but just a suggestion for giggles.....take some pictures of the problem. Take those to the mechanic and ask for an estimate.....oh....and post them here too please.

Then look at the mechanics price.....and look at at the price I listed for parts and tools.

Do you have a jack and a jackstand?.....because this should be pretty simple to get room to work underneath.

You can buy an extra piece of straight tube for maybe $5 and practice bending before you bend the new one. Once you even have it bent close to similar.....installing the pressure unions is dead simple. Just trim the end of each tube with a tubing cutter (about $3-5)....screw on the fittings and tighten with two wrenches and bleed. Done.

I point this out BECAUSE you are working two jobs.....just like many of us. Why spend piles of cash when you can do this for under $60 in less thwn two hours.

That's all I'm saying. Ray


Ray, you've gotta understand two hours to you is about 4-5 for me. I understand nothing about the brake lines and can't even figure out how I'm supposed to get the line off the car in the first place.

I really do appreciate the links and stuff, don't get me wrong, but I just don't feel like it's something I can accomplish.

I might make an attempt but so far I really really don't like brakes, haha. I do have a jack and jackstands but I don't get much room from it. The jack isn't very tall (not even tall enough to lift my bus at ALL.) I work at a shop, too, but they're so busy I can't get in time to work on my own stuff with real mechanic help. Really great guys down there and the owner's even said if there was time and space, he'd let me, but.

Anyways, I'll look into it. Is there a good resource for pulling the line all the way out? Do I have to snip it? Could I put in a pre-bent one? My other Square's was, of course, brand new before it started sitting Rolling Eyes and looks perfect. No rust anywhere. If that car wasn't messed up interior/etc wise, it'd make a great project.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:34 pm    Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. Reply with quote

Or.....you can simply bypass the line in the tunnel....and run a new line under the pan and just clip it to the chassis with rubber and steel line clamps with screws....hardware store.

What I am trying to point out.....is that unless you are sitting on piles of money.....its time to start getting mechanical. The $250 or so you will spend getting this one....fairly simple....item fixed will buy you a sh*t load of tools.

You know.....we can help walk you through this stuff. If you keep avoiding these items by telling yourself you are non-mechanical.....you are going to end up with a handful of basket case cars you can never afford to drive. Just sayin! Wink
Ray
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:49 pm    Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. Reply with quote

raygreenwood wrote:
Or.....you can simply bypass the line in the tunnel....and run a new line under the pan and just clip it to the chassis with rubber and steel line clamps with screws....hardware store.

What I am trying to point out.....is that unless you are sitting on piles of money.....its time to start getting mechanical. The $250 or so you will spend getting this one....fairly simple....item fixed will buy you a sh*t load of tools.

You know.....we can help walk you through this stuff. If you keep avoiding these items by telling yourself you are non-mechanical.....you are going to end up with a handful of basket case cars you can never afford to drive. Just sayin! Wink
Ray


It's not so much that I'm non mechanical, as I said I'm learning more every day and constantly doing something, but I'm not gonna just go buy a welder and say I know how to weld and next thing I know my car is on fire. I'm still very inept, but I'll give it a try.

As far as running it under the pan, I'd rather have it done the same way it's done now if I have to do it myself. The Bus has so many DIY fixes on it like that, it's horrid to look at and I don't want to do it to dear old Blue.

...I still can't believe how hard that bus has lived. Razz


I'll look into doing it all myself, then. Can I just bend the hose with my hands rather than buy tools? Harbor Freight is about 45m drive from here so if I don't HAVE to go, I'd rather not, as I have coupons that are July 4th only, but I kinda need the brakes done already. I'm just going to order the line off the web for the moment if I can't take the one out of Blueberry and use that. Where does it connect in the rear/ past the back seat?

Speaking of back seat, I plan to take that out of Blueberry finally. Gonna make the coolest loveseat ever.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:44 pm    Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. Reply with quote

I believe the brake line runs down the driver side pan next to but not inside the tunnel. The supply & return fuel lines etc are inside the tunnel. If the brakes still don't work well, it is probably the master cylinder rod length needs adjusting.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:43 am    Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. Reply with quote

KollynnBlackpaw wrote:



I'll look into doing it all myself, then. Can I just bend the hose with my hands rather than buy tools?



You can use the ol beer bottle bending method (or your frosty beverage of choice), just gotta be careful not to kink the lines. The bottle has a couple of good radii for bending the lines around, does the trick in a pinch. However, it is in no way the preferred method, and buying the correct tools will make your effort much more efficient.

You have a couple of substantial projects, and you would be doing yourself a huge favor by getting tooled up. I have a feeling that you aren't done acquiring old cars (are any of us?) and this situation will come up again.

I admire your ambition to get these rigs back on the road, and this type of work is likely well within your abilities. Just gotta get the right parts and pieces, do a little research, and start turning some wrenches.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:56 am    Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. Reply with quote

Mike Fisher wrote:
I believe the brake line runs down the driver side pan next to but not inside the tunnel. The supply & return fuel lines etc are inside the tunnel. If the brakes still don't work well, it is probably the master cylinder rod length needs adjusting.


See....there ya go!.....its been so long since I have owned a type 3.....I forgot exactly how the brake line runs.

The point being this makes replacing the line pretty easy. Ray
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:17 am    Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. Reply with quote

Boogievan wrote:
KollynnBlackpaw wrote:



I'll look into doing it all myself, then. Can I just bend the hose with my hands rather than buy tools?



You can use the ol beer bottle bending method (or your frosty beverage of choice), just gotta be careful not to kink the lines. The bottle has a couple of good radii for bending the lines around, does the trick in a pinch. However, it is in no way the preferred method, and buying the correct tools will make your effort much more efficient.

You have a couple of substantial projects, and you would be doing yourself a huge favor by getting tooled up. I have a feeling that you aren't done acquiring old cars (are any of us?) and this situation will come up again.

I admire your ambition to get these rigs back on the road, and this type of work is likely well within your abilities. Just gotta get the right parts and pieces, do a little research, and start turning some wrenches.


Agreed. A simpler choice to what Ray is recommending, is to buy two 5 foot metric bubble flare lines and a coupler (should be under 20 bucks). Use the beer bottle method for the more sharper bends, but for the most part the 2 lines will be plenty. Going this route, you can work from both ends and meet in the middle. You can get metric brake line from Autozone, O'Rielly's, Advanced, NAPA, CarQuest, and other auto parts stores. NAPA has better couplings, but even the AZ one's will work. Just check it before you leave the store, to see IF it'll screw together. You can even coil up the extra line under the rear seat. I've done that before, as well as others here have done that (including Russ Wolfe).

Then you'll just need to add fluid.

I would however buy a quality 11 mm line wrench to remove the lines from their existing locations, as there might not be enough room to swing a vice grip once you've rounded off the corners of the line nuts. BTDT before, and have done so recently too. It happens. Rolling Eyes Most line that you buy however might not be 11mm on the line nut, but since you're putting it together, it's not as big a deal (should be nice clean new bits).

I hope this helps.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:47 am    Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. Reply with quote

Bobnotch wrote:
Boogievan wrote:
KollynnBlackpaw wrote:



I'll look into doing it all myself, then. Can I just bend the hose with my hands rather than buy tools?



You can use the ol beer bottle bending method (or your frosty beverage of choice), just gotta be careful not to kink the lines. The bottle has a couple of good radii for bending the lines around, does the trick in a pinch. However, it is in no way the preferred method, and buying the correct tools will make your effort much more efficient.

You have a couple of substantial projects, and you would be doing yourself a huge favor by getting tooled up. I have a feeling that you aren't done acquiring old cars (are any of us?) and this situation will come up again.

I admire your ambition to get these rigs back on the road, and this type of work is likely well within your abilities. Just gotta get the right parts and pieces, do a little research, and start turning some wrenches.


Agreed. A simpler choice to what Ray is recommending, is to buy two 5 foot metric bubble flare lines and a coupler (should be under 20 bucks). Use the beer bottle method for the more sharper bends, but for the most part the 2 lines will be plenty. Going this route, you can work from both ends and meet in the middle. You can get metric brake line from Autozone, O'Rielly's, Advanced, NAPA, CarQuest, and other auto parts stores. NAPA has better couplings, but even the AZ one's will work. Just check it before you leave the store, to see IF it'll screw together. You can even coil up the extra line under the rear seat. I've done that before, as well as others here have done that (including Russ Wolfe).

Then you'll just need to add fluid.

I would however buy a quality 11 mm line wrench to remove the lines from their existing locations, as there might not be enough room to swing a vice grip once you've rounded off the corners of the line nuts. BTDT before, and have done so recently too. It happens. Rolling Eyes Most line that you buy however might not be 11mm on the line nut, but since you're putting it together, it's not as big a deal (should be nice clean new bits).

I hope this helps.


Thank you, Bob! That sounds a bit more within my ability to get done in less than a week Razz

Helps, too, that I happen to have a gift card for Autozone. I'll probably do what you've said. I mostly didn't want to buy tools I'd hardly be using, too, as I literally just went to Harbor Freight before discovering this issue.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:24 pm    Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. Reply with quote

So, I went with the lazy route and bought a line online. A little annoying to install - but it's getting there. I would have gone the route of making my own, but forgot my mother will be out of town for a week or so here soon, and I'd really rather it be in before that!

On another note: Super Beetle parts! I may not have a Super but my boss didn't want the parts around anymore. Apparently he lost his ass restoring one for a client long ago and just wants them gone, he knows I like aircooled and gave them to me for a good price bulk! Anyone need something let me know! He's also selling the chassis/body/etc (what's left of it anyways.)

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I'll be selling the parts for a reasonable price and probably jurry rigging some of the parts onto my car. The car had some special steering wheel / button, too, which I could barely find info about, but that might be my crappy googling for VW! Razz

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


What I COULD find stated it was from a Sunbug.

NIB EMPI 34 pict 3 carb

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Practically new (I think it actually WAS new) interior!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Great still wrapped Quiet Pack (I was looking into using it on the Square actually...)

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


All tucked into the garage!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:19 pm    Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. Reply with quote

It's coming! The line is officially in and so far has no leaks. I'll be attempting to bleed the brakes tomorrow, however I'm quite busy so I may not get to it. BUT IT'S IN, BY GOD IS IT IN. Brakes suck. Razz

It's good practice, though, and I'm thankful to be doing it!

I also found out that a super beetle's driver mirror glass will fit in a square's passenger mirror, if flipped of course. Just need some glue and that's off the list, too!

As soon as that and the brakes are done, Blue will be on the road! I want to find a new seat, however, plus I feel like a cargo area mat will help a little with the fumes. Oh and I need to figure out this exhaust issue so I can get the exhaust headers off Blueberry and onto Blue, if I can at all. Blueberry has a 12 o'clock whereas Blue has the offset one. When I looked last, the mounting system looked different, but I imagine that's because the headers on Berry are aftermarket to go with the EMPI exhaust.

If anyone fairly close to me has a driver's seat I'd love to hear from ya. Sorry, Mike! You're a little too far! I'd pay you extra though if you'd not mind dragging it up here, or just about anything off Blueberry / Super Beetle parts with the price of the seat.

Oh, carpet! Need new front carpet, too. Also discovered the rear driver's seat floor is going and... you know what? Just know there's still lots of problems. Very Happy

Thanks, again guys for being around and so helpful. This won't be the last you hear of Blue, for sure. Soon it will be "What part broke now?" "What did I fix incorrectly?" and the hit classic "I made it a little prettier!"
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:48 pm    Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. Reply with quote

Dumb question: Can I put a T3 engine a T1? Oliver needs an engine and Blueberry's getting his out soon. He'll still be autostick, though, as I don't know how to swap to manual.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:49 am    Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. Reply with quote

Alrighty, so the brakes finally work other than bleeding. The hosing I used for reservoir > master had been leaking and I had to mess with it twice then change it completely. I was lucky I had a spare piece in my Super Beetle parts! All good and new.

Up next I need to bleed them of course, and fill a tire that's gone from sitting. (I'll just throw on the spare and head to the gas station with the main.)

I'm also attempting to use the exhaust system off Blueberry, however the U bolts (or whatever they're called, they hold it onto the jpipes/heater boxes) were attached extremely tight and actually bent the metal, so I'll have to work out the dents first. Other than that I'm right as rain!
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1972 Square driver, 1970 Squareback parts, 1968 Panel Bus
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Mike Fisher
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Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 15659
Location: Eugene, OR
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:11 pm    Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. Reply with quote

Sometimes it's better to grind off the rusty nuts to keep from ruining the good exhaust etc.
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http://s169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/mr_bojangles500/
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey
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KollynnBlackpaw
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Joined: October 19, 2016
Posts: 170
Location: Hubbard, Oregon
KollynnBlackpaw is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:57 pm    Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. Reply with quote

Mike Fisher wrote:
Sometimes it's better to grind off the rusty nuts to keep from ruining the good exhaust etc.


The exhaust is perfect, but they've left an indent that keeps me from sliding it on the heater boxes as it was too tight. I'm seeing about bending it out today. If not tomorrow I'll take it to the resto shop I work at and see if I can learn to fix it.
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Proud owner of four Brokeswagens.
1972 Square driver, 1970 Squareback parts, 1968 Panel Bus
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Mike Fisher
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Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 15659
Location: Eugene, OR
Mike Fisher is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:56 pm    Post subject: Re: "Blue" '72 Square build from a newbie. Reply with quote

Just a WAG on my part since you didn't post any pictures of your exhaust problem.
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http://s169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/mr_bojangles500/
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey
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