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maggiolo72 Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2013 Posts: 332 Location: Basel (CH)
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Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:30 am Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector aka Super Cool tins |
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Super Cool tins....
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:11 am Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector aka Super Cool tins |
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So there's no Type 1 shroud?
It's apples and bowling balls.
Those tins are factory for a Type 3 but not a Type 1. Looks like it gets air horizontally like on a Type 3 and not vertically like a Type 1. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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GTV Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004 Posts: 2084 Location: Si'ahl
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Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector aka Super Cool tins |
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The factory type one parts tie the all of the tin on the rear of the engine (including cyl head tin) together, making everything fit tightly with no gaps. Remove them and it all gets sloppy. But hey, some guys like it sloppy _________________ EMPI Power Rules! |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:48 pm Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector aka Super Cool tins |
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On the subject of thermostats, how many people would pull the thermostat out of their water cooled car and throw it away?
None?
Why would you do it to an air cooled one then?
If any one out there wants to throw them away, throw them my way please! I will pay the shipping as I have 2 buggies that run like crap without them unless I have my foot buried in the carburetor full time. I need the flaps, linkage and springs please! |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33883 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:17 pm Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector aka Super Cool tins |
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Those in hot or moderate climates removed them in the belief they were not needed and/or were prone to failure. There is a long argument here, so I won't repeat it.
But if you want them, post a want-to-buy (WTB) ad in the classifieds. Also, there is at least one supplier reproducing them, though those are pricey. |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:21 am Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector aka Super Cool tins |
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Years ago I bought into that load of male bovine rectal excretion too and threw it all away. Then I fought with drivability issues and premature cylinder wear and it never once dawned on me that I had caused my own grief! I deeply regret not saving those parts.
Dad was a lot smarter than me and maintained his cooling system properly and had much better luck with his engine.
Yes the thermostats are available still and I would happily pay what they want but they are useless without all the rest of the parts.
I will try an add and see what happens, thanks!
By the way, the thermostats always fail open so that fear is unfounded. |
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tecnica Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2014 Posts: 7 Location: São Paulo - Brazil
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Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:49 am Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector aka Super Cool tins |
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modok wrote: |
I used to think the 6 fins was for ethanol too, but I was wrong.
They have different pistons for gas and alky. Big dish in piston for the lower CR gas. I still have not seen one of these pistons. If you see one take a picture for us
Remember a lot of the VW engines in the 80's were going towards a "May fireball" chamber design, with more and more combustion space being in the piston dish and less in the head. Certainly could make the piston run a little hotter and the head a little cooler. |
Well, here it is:
Gasoline piston, with big dish
Ethanol piston, you can note a slight dome on top
These are uncommon: the 1300 Ethanol VW Gol head and pistons. They have a deeper chamber, a big dome and the valves are in angle. Because their valves, studs, rocker arms and other components are not interchangeable with another T1 engines, they become very rare. May be a Porsche stuff ? I dont know too much about it.
Although the single port, they flow very well.
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26743 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector aka Super Cool tins |
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Thank you!
Wow that IS a big dish.....looks like a piston from a diesel! |
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maggiolo72 Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2013 Posts: 332 Location: Basel (CH)
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Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:36 am Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector aka Super Cool tins |
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For those use the Super Cool do you still use the small front Deflector and the lower deflector ? I think that with the SC they need do be adapted to fit....
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tecnica Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2014 Posts: 7 Location: São Paulo - Brazil
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:46 am Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector aka Super Cool tins |
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Yes, you must use those deflectors too, they fit without adaptations |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:31 pm Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector aka Super Cool tins |
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the funkey end peices dont fit with the super cool tin. I dont like the type 1 stuff and wont use it.the type 3 has full round cylinder cooling better than the type one stuff. but ytou need to be smarter than what your trying to assemble witch is a long shot from what Ive read and seen. |
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snowbug Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2005 Posts: 167 Location: Oshawa Ontario Canada
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Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:58 am Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector aka Super Cool tins |
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I have to say something. Berg says to use these so called cool tins , so I did. I always felt the engine seems to run hotter with these air restrictors installed. My 1835 went 5000 miles before pulling the lower head studs out. After repairing with inserts I tossed the cool tins and put the type 1 deflectors back in. 2000 miles later , engine seems to run cooler. I did ad a temp gauge after the repair. But do not have any data sorry, just seat of the pants feel. _________________ Old enough to remember THRILLS, the gum that tastes like soap. |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:50 am Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector aka Super Cool tins |
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It depends on your setup.if you don't have allot the type one tin in place and sealed yup portably will be better off with these. But you can't fix stupid. |
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tdrrally Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2011 Posts: 181 Location: charleston,wv.
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Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector aka Super Cool tins |
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Boolean, the "6 fins" compression ratios where the same of the 8´s: 7.5 for gasoline, and 10:1 for ethanol ones.
The ethanol in these engines is a very cool thing, transform them in a little devil. You should experiment it. [/quote]
i'm working on an E85 1835 as a rally engine i would like to hear more about the ethanol engines |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:27 am Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector aka Super Cool tins |
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Quote: |
These are uncommon: the 1300 Ethanol VW Gol head and pistons. They have a deeper chamber, a big dome and the valves are in angle. Because their valves, studs, rocker arms and other components are not interchangeable with another T1 engines, they become very rare. May be a Porsche stuff ? I dont know too much about it.
Although the single port, they flow very well.
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I like these heads. wish they had made it over hear in large numbers as production stuff. |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:43 am Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector aka Super Cool tins |
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GTV wrote: |
The factory type one parts tie the all of the tin on the rear of the engine (including cyl head tin) together, making everything fit tightly with no gaps. Remove them and it all gets sloppy. But hey, some guys like it sloppy |
so just where are the type 1 tins tied to the other tins?? never seen that peace before or are you talking about that big gap speaking about sloppy....like the moron trying to use apples for bolwing balls...or is he trying to go bobbing for bowling balls
as I recall the type 3 cool tins do remove the LARGE gaps and send pumped air all nicely directed around the cylinders to remove heat before disposing of it downward. And as I recall they also keep the head studs "encapsulated" in the air stream pretty good so they heat&expand ,cool&contract kinda evenly...witch helps the chrome on the front bumper deflect the blowing ball from the guy eating the apple who isant paying attn to squat as he drops it on somebody else car....now orange you glad you have that extra protection of the type 3 cool tins...or do you have gap insurance |
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7182 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:16 am Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector aka Super Cool tins |
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Hello.
For some reason I never noticed this thread before. Anyways, back in the late 90íes and early 2000´s we did a comprehensive cooling test with varius solutions on a type 1 engine with regular type 1 heads. All sorts of combinations. - Small and wide cooling fan. Stock doghouse versus early. Stock doghouse versus 30 hp style. Modified type 4 cooling fan (Joe Lociero style) in type 1 housing. DTM shroud with stock - and modified type 4 fan. Porsche fan shroud etc etc.
At that time we found that the "super cool" tin does absolutely no improvement on a type 1 based engine compared to the same engine equipped with ALL the type 1 tins. In fact the Super cool tin draws 1 hp more @ 5000 rpm compared to stock doghouse type 1.
If you leave out some of the stock type 1 tin, such as the small pieces behind cylinder 2 & 4 (which people often do (sadly) the picture changes immediately, and you create hot spots in the 5 & 7 o clock respectively position on the cylinder.
Wrt. the flaps. Below approx 3000 engine rpm the air gets distributed a little better with the flaps compared to no flaps. Above 3000 rpm there is very little difference if any.
It is much more important to install the divider (if you use aftermarket cool tin) That alone can reduce head temps with 10-15 degrees...
Hope this helps. |
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fivelugshortaxle Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011 Posts: 4254 Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:27 pm Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector aka Super Cool tins |
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Alstrup wrote: |
Hello.
For some reason I never noticed this thread before. Anyways, back in the late 90íes and early 2000´s we did a comprehensive cooling test with varius solutions on a type 1 engine with regular type 1 heads. All sorts of combinations. - Small and wide cooling fan. Stock doghouse versus early. Stock doghouse versus 30 hp style. Modified type 4 cooling fan (Joe Lociero style) in type 1 housing. DTM shroud with stock - and modified type 4 fan. Porsche fan shroud etc etc.
At that time we found that the "super cool" tin does absolutely no improvement on a type 1 based engine compared to the same engine equipped with ALL the type 1 tins. In fact the Super cool tin draws 1 hp more @ 5000 rpm compared to stock doghouse type 1.
If you leave out some of the stock type 1 tin, such as the small pieces behind cylinder 2 & 4 (which people often do (sadly) the picture changes immediately, and you create hot spots in the 5 & 7 o clock respectively position on the cylinder.
Wrt. the flaps. Below approx 3000 engine rpm the air gets distributed a little better with the flaps compared to no flaps. Above 3000 rpm there is very little difference if any.
It is much more important to install the divider (if you use aftermarket cool tin) That alone can reduce head temps with 10-15 degrees...
Hope this helps. |
Definitely helped me answer a question that another member planted in my head....I'll be putting the small pieces of tin behind 2 and 4 tomorrow. ....also the small pieces behind one and 3 _________________ Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector aka Super Cool tins |
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correct if your not running all the oe tin then the type 3 works gooder. as for the hp loss, thats the fan being loaded more thus pumping more air. if you want more hp block off the fan so it dosent have air to put a load on it..... |
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Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12454
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:16 am Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector aka Super Cool tins |
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mark tucker wrote: |
correct if your not running all the oe tin then the type 3 works gooder. as for the hp loss, thats the fan being loaded more thus pumping more air. if you want more hp block off the fan so it dosent have air to put a load on it..... |
^^^^^^ living proof that eating paint chips effects intelligence ^^^^^^^^ |
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