Missing t-stat and flaps on type 4 engine

[Whaanga]

Hello.

I have been working on my 73 bus since I got it in early May. I have asked a lot of questions here and done lots and lots of reading and lots of work. My latest discovery is the missing t-stat on my bus engine. I can't tell if the flaps are missing but it's clear that that the rod that connects them is gone. I am amazed at how many vital parts have been missing on my bus. Slowly, I've been putting things back in order with your help and guidance.

The engine in my bus is from a 70/71 Porsche 914.

Here are a few photos. The t-stat and its mounting bracket is gone.

From the photos below, does it look like the flaps are missing too?

Are these parts obtainable?

The bus is running very well and I drive it ~ 50 miles per week. I have read that the missing t-Stat and flaps can reduce engine life so I want to add these missing parts.

I live in Western NY so will put the bus away for the winter. The bus always runs a little rough for the first 60 seconds or so but then runs very smooth after a short warm up.

I would appreciate your advise on this.

Thanks so much.

[williamM]

yup- some old timer T1 guy pulled the diverter flaps--- bad bad- those flaps direct cooling air to the oil cooler after the engine warms up.

Unlike the t1- whose T stat shuts off the cooling air- this just moves it from the oil cooler when cold- then when hot it diverts cooing and splits it up to the cylinders.

Last one of these I saw was a scuffed piston after running the mountians.

prepare to spend some money on this-


you will need

1- the flaps and rod- saw one on samba ads today- stupid price $75
2- the nylon bearings that fit the fan shroud and the 2 little brackets that hold them in place and give the "hold open" spring a place to ride.
3- the small spool that needs special bolt and seal washer
4- the bicycle shift cable that runs it all
5- the thermostat and bracket and the capture nut for the thermostat wire.

Best bet is to put up wanted ad for all of it.
also contact the vw junk yards advertising here.
_________________
some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.

opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.

Don't step in any!

[Whaanga]

Thanks. I was afraid this was the case. Is the kind of situation where I should park it immediately until I can assemble all the parts? As I said, I'm parking it for the winter anyway - or keep driving it on my short trips here and there? I've sort of blown my wad for the season so plan to slowly buy parts over the winter and then get back to work in the spring.

Also, what's the best way to acces the flaps? Remove the fan shroud? My fan is missing a a fin so I want to replace it also - does it makes sense to do both jobs at the same time.


Thanks, as always.

[sgraham602]

I'm in the same position with my type 4 engine (1.8L)! I'd be interested to find out how tough of a job this is. It looks to me like you'd have to remove the cylinder shrouds? (not sure if that's what they are called.)
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What a long strange trip it's been.

[aerosurfer]

You have to pull the fan shroud at the least work. Its doable but you may mav to loosen the exhaust to get the shroud off around the bottom.

Look up threads for removing the oil cooler/ oil cooler seals for how to do it while the engine is in.
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Rebuild your own FI Harness..My Harness

77 Westy 2.0L Rockin and Rolling Resto!

72 Sportsmobile (sold)
79 Tran$porter... Parts car money machine (gone)

[Amskeptic]

[Yarkle]

As an aside, (since my bus has the same thing) was there a bunch of 411/914 wrecks back in the day so they just yanked the powerpant out and slapped them into buses with a weber progressive?

were there alot of blown 1.7s back then?

or was it cool to just have a porsche motor?

just seems to be a lot of pictures of them on the the bay forum recently.

Also, you arent too too far (well, a couple hundred miles) from me. Im supposed to be getting a box full of tin from colorado this week, once you figure out what you need i might have some extras.
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Tilda the Mustard Tigress 1973 Squareback (o'''^'''o)

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=771024&highlight=

[williamM]

[quote="Amskeptic"]

[kooper271]

Awesome powdercoating will sell you the t stat, mount, and flaps I believe.

[williamM]

[quote="williamM"]

[SGKent]

can't run a T4 engine with a stock oil cooler very long without cooling flaps or it will be damaged.

I may have a set of flaps I can sell for about $50 - $60 shipped. Will have to check the boxes in the attic - I know they are up there, just don't know if they have the knee joint, nylon bearings they sit into, and a good spring. I know they lack the steel tabs that hold them in but those can be cut easily from a tin can or similar. If you are interested PM me and I will check them out. They are the kind of item that maybe there are 2 or 3 sets around easily found then suddenly there are no more sets for a year or so before some show up again.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[orwell84]

It's not a hard job, just fiddly. You have to make sure there is spring tension on the flaps so that when you let go of the tab that the cable attaches to the flaps returned to the "warmed up" position allowing full cooling. It's easy to see than read about. I drove for years with no thermostat and was surprised when I replaced it at how such a cheapo wonky looking system improves driveability after startup in any conditions and keeps the oil at the right temp in cold conditions. I learned my lesson idling for a long time in freezing weather and ending up with a crankcase full of gas.

[Busstom]

Awesome Powdercoat has pretty much everything you need, including the sheave. Not sure about the rod, there's no pic of the flaps on their site yet. Look ' em up.
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My name's Steve and it's pronounced "Bust 'em" (cuz people think I'm Tom) 😏

[williamM]

just finished looking the flaps over and here are the findings-- the oil cooler flap (drivers side) is secured in the cast fan housing with 2 spring clips on its axle- it moved with a wire knee action lever off the main rod.

The other side is attached to the rod permanently. This whole thing sits in 2 nylon bearing/saddles that are fitted to the casting. There are 2 springy tabs holding this in place. -Also on the fan shroud.

Upon assembly- there is a coil spring wound round the rod on the right side and a leg of that spring goes round the springy tab causing the flaps to open as if in the warmed up position.

the flaps are run off a cable that is clamped to the rod and goes round a pulley on the side of the block and back to the thermostat bellows in a bracket.

The flaps are adjusted cold- by moving the flaps tighter on the cable so the clamp will hut the flaps against the spring pressure and the collapsed bellows of the Tstat.

There are a few things that can be an issue-

the oil cooler frame has a rubber seal for the diverter door-

and the diverter can be bent - as it is exposed to the elements when the fan shroud is off the engine. I has a particular shape to it so it seals correctly.

If I can remember - I'll take some oictures.
_________________
some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.

opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.

Don't step in any!

[SGKent]

I was able to provide Whaanga (Jeff) with a good set of flaps complete with bearings and spring, new flap snubber, thermostat housing, NOS Wahler 85C tstat in box (I was keeping as a spare for my next engine), a used cable and a pulley but I did not have the special pulley bolt. If someone has a spare one please let him know as he will need it. The pulley is the nylon factory one with a 8mm bore that I think takes the 6mm bolt with an 8mm step shoulder on it.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[Tcash]

#44
http://www.jerseylooker.com/FicheDump/EarlyBaywindow/1-046.jpg
http://www.jerseylooker.com/FicheDump/EarlyBaywindow/1-048.jpg
http://www.jerseylooker.com/FicheDump/LateBaywindow/012-00-1-029.jpg

http://www.porschepartssuperstore.com/product-p/271-821-767.htm

Good luck
Tcash

[williamM]

all my pulleys have been stamped tin- something to do with the heat down there ??? I've made that shoulder bolt with a washer and piece of steel pipe. The hole it screws into goes all the way into the block, so good sealer is required.
_________________
some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.

opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.

Don't step in any!

[Wasted youth]

Timely thread. My new bus is... of course... missing the flaps. I think I have everything in my stash, but maybe need some things.

You can remove the cooling fan shroud insitu, but it can be quite a task. Chief complaints are dealing with the alternator hardware and pulling the shroud back off the studs from the engine case. That will be a bit of a fight, but you can do it. While you're in there doing all that, you can check to see if your cooling fan shroud also needs the two little check valve/flaps for the cabin heating ducts. There are a couple of threads about that!

Here is what it took to remove the shroud to replace my leaking oil cooler:

Once you remove the shroud, getting access to the flaps (married to the shroud) and checking them for adjustment, and also verifying your rubber seal on the oil cooler is still good, is now a practical task.

After you install the flaps and set the fan housing back on, try finishing the flaps and thermostat adjustment before you put the rest of the engine accessory parts back on. Then take a hair dryer (I used a heat gun) and activate the thermostat to verify the assembly works.

[Whaanga]

Thank you to everyone for such helpful and detailed suggestions. Will follow up and assemble the remaing parts to complete everything. A big Thank you also to SGKent for helping me secure the flaps and t-stat plus lots of handholding and good strategizing. (I'm a newbie fter all). Looking forward to having this important function restored to my engine so I can venture a little farther from home with confidence and proper cooling.

Thanks to you all!

[Whaanga]

I wanted to give an update after learning on this post from about nine months ago that I was missing both the thermostat and the cooling flaps on my bus. I'm very glad to report that I now have a compete system and it is in working order as designed. Thanks for all the great help, guidance and great information learned here. And thanks again to SGKent for the actual parts and his help.

Here's a few photos of the now present flaps as originally designed.