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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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 Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| kreemoweet wrote: |
That note from CIP1 about the reservoirs makes absolutely no sense, and is surely incorrect. There is only a single master
cylinder for all 71-79 busses with boosters. The main reservoir is different depending on where the upper refill reservoir is located
and how the feed line is routed, but they all fit into the M/C the same way. |
Thanks kreemoweet, learned something new today!
Suggestions or things to look out for from their past experience?
Start spraying everything with penetrating oil now.
Install the reservoir with new grommets (lubed with WD-40) and Bench bleed the master cylinder before you put it on. Careful with the reservoir, they get brittle with time.
Good Luck |
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19BUG70
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2006
Posts: 74
Location: Livermore, California
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:08 am Post subject: |
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I started addressing things last night trying to get a plan going. This will go slow for a novice, but I need to give it a shot. I sprayed penetrating oil and visually checked things out. It appears there are two bolts that attach the MC to the rear side of the brake booster and 4 bolts that go through the bracket that holds the booster in place. And then misc. hoses that attach the reservoir etc. to the MC. I actually took off 3 of the 4 bolts on the one side and disconnected the hose which let out some fluid that was backed up, not much but more than a drip. Taking off the MC seems pretty straight forward. When I take off the booster where do I disconnect it at? At the rubber boot or more toward the front? In the picture you can see a few bolts just in front of the rubber boot - maybe there?
_________________
1970 Bug (sold 12/2014)
1972 Riviera Camper
1961 Bug (sold)
1966 Fastback TL |
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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19BUG70
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2006
Posts: 74
Location: Livermore, California
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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Other than being dizzy now that was helpful. 
_________________
1970 Bug (sold 12/2014)
1972 Riviera Camper
1961 Bug (sold)
1966 Fastback TL |
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19BUG70
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2006
Posts: 74
Location: Livermore, California
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:16 am Post subject: |
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Booster was full of brake fluid. I am sending off to Karps for a rebuild today. Thanks to Tcash for the video link, the booster came out without to much effort.
While I am waiting on that I will look at the hoses. As usual any suggestions are appreciated.
_________________
1970 Bug (sold 12/2014)
1972 Riviera Camper
1961 Bug (sold)
1966 Fastback TL |
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Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:57 am Post subject: |
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Remove the shaft from the booster, and carefully leave the set nut in its place on the shaft that connects the servo unit to the brake pedal linkage. This will aide you greatly when you get the booster back from Karp's during reinstallation and adjustment. I wrapped some tape around mine so it wouldn't move a bit.
Replace all rubber brake lines, mine were easily found at my FLAPS. Give the entire system a complete flush. Make sure you replace all the bleeder valves as cheap insurance against breaking off a rusted one at an inopportune time. Purge front calipers using lower bleed valve. Replace rubber bushings where the steel lines pass through the body, those bushings can be found through Bus Depot or your favorite vendor.
You might even consider rebuilding your front calipers. |
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19BUG70
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2006
Posts: 74
Location: Livermore, California
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:34 am Post subject: |
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Wasted youth - thanks
Here are some pictures for documentation;
From the front;
From the rear;
I left the MC in for now until I get the new one so I can reference where things go.
_________________
1970 Bug (sold 12/2014)
1972 Riviera Camper
1961 Bug (sold)
1966 Fastback TL |
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kreemoweet
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 3897
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:44 am Post subject: |
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You might want to go ahead and remove the fluid reservoir from the M/C. They sometimes take
a substantial effort to pry out of the old M/C and get broken in the process - not something you'd
like to see happen after the new M/C arrives and you're hoping to get it back together without delay.
_________________
'67 bug: seized by the authorities
'68 bug: seized by the authorities
'71 kombi: not yet seized by the authorities
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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for my 1977 I was able to source an upper and lower new reservoir from Bug Haus. They get brittle and often will shatter removing them. If you replace it you will also need the rubber sleeve that goes inside the plastic tube.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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merlinj79
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2008
Posts: 379
Location: SOCAL
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:11 am Post subject: |
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Also regarding those brake light switches...
There have been some dangerous quality control issues with at least one aftermarket replacement (the core of the switch blows out under pressure, dumping all pressure in that loop).
If those are EOM (probably are) I would use them as long as they last, but they will wear out eventually.
When you replace them, do some research and make sure you get good switches...there was a thread on samba about that a couple years ago. At least one of the well-known bus vendors was selling the bad ones (unintentionally I'm sure).
_________________
Rick
"Pumpkin II"
Stock 2L FI '77 Westy
CA Smog Stuff |
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19BUG70
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2006
Posts: 74
Location: Livermore, California
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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The last several posts with the tips and things to look out for are very much appreciated. I was able to get out the MC and the new one I bought here on TheSamba arrived today. I still need to address hoses etc. while I am waiting on the booster.
_________________
1970 Bug (sold 12/2014)
1972 Riviera Camper
1961 Bug (sold)
1966 Fastback TL |
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Jody '71
Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2005
Posts: 2842
Location: Manassas VA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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Do yourself a favor and get a new MC reservoir. The way that one looks to be original it will definitely break either with removal or re-installation. I wouldn't trust it. Too old. Taking the old one out is pretty straight forward, pry evenly with something like wooden shims (or pull/ wiggle) at both ports while you've got it secured in your shop vice.
Put your new one into the vice and bench bleed it after you have the new grommets in place. Take your new reservoir and squeeze it evenly with both hands into the grommets so it finally seats. Don't get it cock-eyed during the process!!!! Some say it not necessary to bench bleed. That's up to you.
Best of luck!!
_________________
'66 Beetle
2011 Hyundai Elantra Touring |
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RhinoVonRiesenberger
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2014
Posts: 5
Location: Alpharetta, Georgia
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:30 am Post subject: Brake Booster Replacement |
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| merlinj79 wrote: |
It looks like the MC is probably leaking past it's internal seals, which will flood the brake booster and destroy it's internal diaphragm.
But there's also some kind of fluid leak in the upper left of the picture, on the torsion housing tube. That is probably a leak from the reservoir, the tube from the reservoir to the MC, or both.
You'll need a new or rebuilt MC, a new or rebuilt booster, and probably the supply tube to the MC.
If it hasn't been soaking for long, it's remotely possible that you could flush out the booster to remove the brake fluid and see if it still works. But odds are good the diaphragm is toast, or will be soon. |
After removing my brake booster, I noticed a good amount of brake fluid that had built up and probably had been sitting for years...I replaced my MC but does this mean that my brake booster is also shot and needs replacement? How would I go about and test to see if the diaphragm is good or not?
Bus is being worked on and won't have suspension or engine in for a few more months. Not sure if it would need to driven to test the brake servo. |
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19BUG70
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2006
Posts: 74
Location: Livermore, California
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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I received the brake booster back from Jeff at Karps and it looks brand new. I will post pictures next weekend when I have time to tackle the installation of the booster and the MC.
_________________
1970 Bug (sold 12/2014)
1972 Riviera Camper
1961 Bug (sold)
1966 Fastback TL |
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19BUG70
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2006
Posts: 74
Location: Livermore, California
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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I spent time today installing the brake booster and MC. The only real issues I had were the parts ordered from Bus Depot. The tube I ordered that goes from the lower reservoir to the upper was to long so it had to be shortened. Also, the rubber grommets they sent with the lower reservoir I ordered were to big to use (not even close) but I was able to use the old ones. All in all after the installation and bleeding of the brakes everything seems real good and the brakes performed well during a short test drive.
I need to get another vacuum hose as I didn't realize the two attaching from the brake booster were different sizes.....my fault and an easy fix. I left the old one on for now.
_________________
1970 Bug (sold 12/2014)
1972 Riviera Camper
1961 Bug (sold)
1966 Fastback TL |
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Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Looks like a great improvement! |
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captincanuck
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2014
Posts: 730
Location: The Great White North
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:21 am Post subject: Brazilian Brake booster install in a T2 |
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Thought I would share my booster experience from my build here:
| captincanuck wrote: |
Got the new booster installed and the issue has been fixed. Working great now. So I went with this OE Brazil VW booster that was described as
"SLIGHT MODIFICATION REQUIRED""The mounting studs have a different spacing, so you will need to drill new holes in the mounting bracket to install."
Doesn't sound to difficult right?  I guess if they had said "don't make any other plans for the day" they wouldn't sell any.
Here is a side by side
First issue (the biggest one): The "new hole" you need to drill in the mounting bracket are only half on the bracket (shown in the red square) so put the drill down and get out the (I want to) die grinder.
Next problem: That plate they give you has a lip to hold the boot down to the face or the booster, and guess what, the lip doesn't fit into the stock hole in the bus bracket. More grinding..
Third: Not a big one but worth mentioning. The vent pipe is larger on the new booster. The old one swaps over without issue
So after all that, here it is installed. I'm not happy with the result, but just had to get it movable.
For the time being I put several washers on the studs to makeup for that lip until I can grind out the circle a bit. Also I am planning to weld some extension pieces onto the mounting bracket so the studs are properly supported.
Is it wise to weld this bracket with the beam installed and full of grease? Would I be damaging anything from the heat of the welder? Probably better to ask first. 
O almost forgot: The new boosters boot is quite thinner than the original boot. Will be interesting to see how long it lasts |
_________________
1979 Westfalia "FireFly" Subaru 2.2 with Subaru gears 5spd.
Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=634777&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 |
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rusty busty
Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2015
Posts: 310
Location: Vancouver BC
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:36 am Post subject: Re: Brake Booster Issue |
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| captincanuck wrote: |
Thought I would share my booster experience from my build here:
| captincanuck wrote: |
Got the new booster installed and the issue has been fixed. Working great now. So I went with this OE Brazil VW booster that was described as
"SLIGHT MODIFICATION REQUIRED""The mounting studs have a different spacing, so you will need to drill new holes in the mounting bracket to install."
Doesn't sound to difficult right? I guess if they had said "don't make any other plans for the day" they wouldn't sell any.
Here is a side by side
First issue (the biggest one): The "new hole" you need to drill in the mounting bracket are only half on the bracket (shown in the red square) so put the drill down and get out the (I want to) die grinder.
Next problem: That plate they give you has a lip to hold the boot down to the face or the booster, and guess what, the lip doesn't fit into the stock hole in the bus bracket. More grinding..
Third: Not a big one but worth mentioning. The vent pipe is larger on the new booster. The old one swaps over without issue
So after all that, here it is installed. I'm not happy with the result, but just had to get it movable.
For the time being I put several washers on the studs to makeup for that lip until I can grind out the circle a bit. Also I am planning to weld some extension pieces onto the mounting bracket so the studs are properly supported.
Is it wise to weld this bracket with the beam installed and full of grease? Would I be damaging anything from the heat of the welder? Probably better to ask first.
O almost forgot: The new boosters boot is quite thinner than the original boot. Will be interesting to see how long it lasts |
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Oh wow! I just did this job the other day. I was about to get the Brazilian booster but at the last minute I decided to go for the ATE booster and MC. Glad I did now. They fit like a glove.
_________________
1978 CEII Get-away hightop |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22639
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Brake Booster Issue |
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Your fix looks fine to me. Lets archive a note here to others though, to be aware that if the booster gets loose from that bracket,,,
you have no, none, zero, zilch, empty pizza box.....brakes.
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.ssS! |
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jtauxe
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 5780
Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Booster Issue |
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I've had two boosters ('73 and '75) rebuilt by Brake Materials and Parts in Fort Wayne, ID, and have been happy with the results:
http://www.brakematerialsandparts.com/
_________________
John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD
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