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Engine Removal Issue
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dgsaz
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:28 pm    Post subject: Engine Removal Issue Reply with quote

Here's the issue:

The upper / left bolt connecting engine to transmission. I've never seen this and I'm puzzled.

When I try to set a socket on the head of the bolt in this position, the socket only sits about half on the bolt. To my bad eyes it looks like the are a couple little nubs at the bottom of the bolt hole.

First thought was the nubs hold the bolt head from spinning when you nut the other side. That's not right, the bolt goes through the transmission from front of the engine and there is a fixed cap nut that is threads into on the engine case.

I have tried to knock the nubs off with a long screwdriver and mallet. The nubs won't move. I'm taking a dremel tool tomorrow and tru and grind the nubs if I can get up there behind the clutch lever. It's tight.

Last option is go after it with a long extension and short ratchet. Maybe the amount of purchase on the bolt will be sufficient to loosen.

Anyone have an idea on the "nubs"? I shot 20 pictures and didn't get anything that worked. Too confined to get in three for a clean shot. Tomorrows another day.

dgsaz
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Al Huva
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine Removal Issuse Reply with quote

If its a dual port motor that bolt threads into the engine block and it may be tighten to much and the head may have partially embedded into the transmission case . if so Ive had to cut down a 17 mm socket to get it onto the head of the bolt. If it is a dual port you may also have a nut on the backside of the block and you need to partially remove the fan shroud to get a wrench back there If its not a dual port should just reach behind with a wrench and remove the nut with someone holding the bolt from underneath the bus Hope that helps a pic would sure help
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scubaseas
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine Removal Issuse Reply with quote

A thin wall 17mm socket on a long extension (30") and a universal swivel might do it. A 17mm short combination or box wrench from the top to the transmission side should work OK. Use a large screw driver to hold the rear engine tin forward so you can get access to the bolt head. It's from the top, back handed, do it blind operation. Once you have it out you'll see what the nibs are. They hold the nut in place for the bolt. Or somebody's been in there and done who knows what. HTH

You might be able to borrow an inspection camera to get a better look or picture. About $70 at Harbor Freight. Neat tool.
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crukab
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine Removal Issuse Reply with quote

When I found this :

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I had to do this:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It sucked, but kept me moving foward..........
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dgsaz
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine Removal Issuse Reply with quote

Al Huva wrote:
If its a dual port motor that bolt threads into the engine block and it may be tighten to much and the head may have partially embedded into the transmission case . if so Ive had to cut down a 17 mm socket to get it onto the head of the bolt. If it is a dual port you may also have a nut on the backside of the block and you need to partially remove the fan shroud to get a wrench back there If its not a dual port should just reach behind with a wrench and remove the nut with someone holding the bolt from underneath the bus Hope that helps a pic would sure help


Not a dual port. Single old H case. There is a fixed cap nut on the engine side that the bolt threads into. I took an old socket and ground it down to try and fit between the nut head and the nubs. I think it may come out with the socket and a long extension for the ratchet. We'll see tomorrow. Thanks for the feedback.
dgsaz
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Clara Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine Removal Issuse Reply with quote

With some cases there is a captive nut insert on the upper left. It came on dual port aka doghouse engines, so you can install the bolt from underneath without having to hold the nut on top which would mean installing the doghouse vent tin after the engine is bolted in place. Which is not impossible, just saying. To install the bolt underneath you may want to use a long extension on the socket. And tell the tranny how much you admire it as you embrace it.

Some trans are designed to hold the D shaped bolt head, to make it easy to thread the nut on above.

These two things are not designed to play well together, but sometimes a PO does that anyway.
So its a PITA. I use a couple fat washers under the bolt, they have to be ground at an angle to fit. So the circle has a point at one corner. Then the hex is shimmed out just enough from the tranny to have enough space so the socket holds the hex head and all is right with the world. :)
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BarryL Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:54 am    Post subject: Re: Engine Removal Issuse Reply with quote

Clara wrote:
And tell the tranny how much you admire it as you embrace it.

I love the way you gnash your teeth, claw the back of my arm when I tighten your cable, and your filth.
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dgsaz
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine Removal Issuse Reply with quote

BarryL wrote:
Clara wrote:
And tell the tranny how much you admire it as you embrace it.

I love the way you gnash your teeth, claw the back of my arm when I tighten your cable, and your filth.


I had a feeling I was being watched today...........

My preference to to say drop the engine rather that pull out, more manly.....
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dgsaz
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine Removal Issuse Reply with quote

Carla, is was as you predicted. The nubs were there to hold the bolt on one side but the other was the fixed cap nut. That said, the only way to get the bolt out was to
grind down a socket, use a long extension and be patient.

One ratchet click at at time and I finally got it loose to finger the rest. After that the engine jumped out of the back and the morning was over. Pulled the gas tank and did a bit of tidy up and called it a day by lunch.

There was a washer on the bolt head that was the same size as the nut. I think I'll find a thick washer and see if will stand the head of the bolt off of the nubs. There is more than enough thread to try.

All and all a successful morning.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Tools of extraction.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Picture of the nubs, left ,upper, engine mount.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Engine out, ready for dual carbs
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Bas tank out ready for rebuild and paint. Thanks for the advise and insight everyone.


dgsaz
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ToolBox
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: Engine Removal Issuse Reply with quote

Use a socket head cap screw and life will be good....

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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Daddybus
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: Engine Removal Issuse Reply with quote

ToolBox wrote:
Use a socket head cap screw and life will be good....

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Good idea on the screw. Does socket head cap screw = allen head cap bolt?

I always remove the upper bolt by the #3 cylinder first while the other 3 bolts are distributing the clamping force. When you remove it last all of the force from the motor is on the hardest bolt to remove.
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dgsaz
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine Removal Issuse Reply with quote

ToolBox wrote:
Use a socket head cap screw and life will be good....

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


So simple, yet utterly brilliant. That's what I'm gonna do!!!!

The old forest for the trees thing.........

dgsaz
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Bruce Amacker
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine Removal Issue Reply with quote

Been using those for years with a washer. 8mm Allen on a flex and long extension gets it, it's the cat's ass. I have a bin full of them in my stuff, I think it's an M10x70.......
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Abscate Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine Removal Issue Reply with quote

A Torx would be even less likely to strip out, too.
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joefriday
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine Removal Issue Reply with quote

I had a similar problem bolting my 1600 to a 1967 transaxle about a week before this posting. I ground the nub down a bit, and added washers. I like the socket head screw cap idea too. Another trip to Fastenal.
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Ran When Parked
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine Removal Issue Reply with quote

I came in here to post something like, "It's only four bolts, how hard can it be?"

But learned some new stuff.
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dgsaz
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:07 am    Post subject: Re: Engine Removal Issue Reply with quote

joefriday wrote:
I had a similar problem bolting my 1600 to a 1967 transaxle about a week before this posting. I ground the nub down a bit, and added washers. I like the socket head screw cap idea too. Another trip to Fastenal.


The "nubs" are pretty hard to get to. How did you get in there to grind them off?

I thought about trying going over the "firewall" to grind the "nubs" but the allen head bolt with flat washers is much easier.

It's only 4 bolts...........

dgsaz
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joefriday
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:04 am    Post subject: Re: Engine Removal Issue Reply with quote

I pulled the engine back out to see what I was doing. I believe there is an alloy of magnesium in the transmission case. Flakes and powder are flammable and I didn't want to generate a spark by knicking any steel after making a pile of magnesium. Right under the gas tank. That could end poorly.
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