Another Brake question..

[addicted_2_vws]

After replacing everything except the drums, I mean everything, I got a nice hard pedal but, there was a leak at the rear Tee fitting. So, The car sat that way for the winter. fluid was in the MC and lines. I have fixed the leak but, now I have no pedal at all. When I loosen the bleeders it will come out without any bubbles. A nice stream but, quickly goes to a trickle. I've used 2 quarts of fluid already and still nothing. I use the 2 person method and Its a dual Master cylinder in a 68 pan. I have found no other leaks and I don't hear any suction sounds. Could the MC have gone bad?

[Multi69s]

After you replaced the T you got some bubbles, right? If you didn't you still have air in the line. If you got air first then fluid, I'd say bad mc. With the bleeders closed, what happens after you pump the pedal about 6 times and hold it, then crack the bleeder? It should let out a steady stream as the pedal falls. Most of the new mc out there are junk. You might have gotten a marginal one that worked at first, but after sitting will no longer seal. Do you have a way of back bleeding? I use a high pressure oiling can that I use to back bleed. If you can't get a good pedal after back bleeding, you know for sure the mc is bad.
_________________
69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=

[Islandman]

I had a similar issue a while back. Old dude told me when the system is that full of air, the typical slow pedal pumping during buddy bleeding doesn't cut it. Told me to use firm and fast pedal pumps to build up enough pressure at the bleeders to start a good bleeding session and then slow it down. Worked like a champ and may help if the master is serviceable.

Also make sure fluid isn't leaking out of the master's pushrod end into the double wall and down into the frame.

[mark tucker]

I put a set of new break cylinders on my bug.had funkey breaks ever since... well i pulled them back off to check everything real well when I notices they didnt adjust quite right....they were rusted inside and 1 piston was completely froze....( yes there were new from good supplier....ultimately from...CHINA). I beat the pistons out honed and stuck back togeather. they work better than the car has ever since Ive had it. so yes it is possiable the new mc is dead....or you need to properly adjust and bleed the breaks. you may also have a air leek at the mc and it;s sucken air. also the placement of the bleeded screws on the std are in such a way the car needs to be stood on the front bumper to bleed all the air out of the fronts( I dont recall the rears I have disc rears) or you can remove the cylinders and tilt them so the bleeded is up and use a good strong C clamp to bleed them( thats how i do it ) then bolt them back on and assembe& adjust. be sure to get the angle thingys on right on the adjuster's. and be sure to tighten the wheel bearings!!!!! loose wheel bearings are the cause of most death woobles issues. if you dont know how to properly adjust wheel bearings arkeweled has a great article on it.( I thanked them for it as somany people just do not know how to adjust bearings.they will not work snug!!! or lose!!!! tapered bearings have to have the proper preload to 1 function properly, 2, too last,3 to be held in proper position on a tiny underiszed spindle without moving. ever seen a dead bearing washer??? the bearings were too loose/did not have enough preload.

[VW_Jimbo]

Hey there! Break fluid is hydroscopic, meaning that it takes water or moisture in, whenever and however it can. If you leave a break system open to the elements, that water will get in and compromise the interior of the system. My advise would be to go one wheel at a time. Buy some threaded plugs and bleed just the master. Hopefully, the master is okay. Make sure that it is working and will hold a pedal. Then connect the closest front line to the master and bleed. If that holds, connect the other front, and check. Then the rears. At some point, you will either find the compromised line, or have well bleed brakes!
_________________
Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[garyt]

Well my advice is to take out all the old brake fluid and start again with brand new good stuff, and buy one of those cheap non return valves that allow you to do the brakes yourself. Pour in slow. And then when full pump pretty hard at first. Follow the correct order. Then, you will have to adjust the brakes as well (did you do that?).

[Multi69s]

Sorry Mark, but you don't have to go to that convoluted process to bleed the front brakes. When you crack the bleed valve, the return springs on the shoes pull in the pistons on the brake cylinder, which places the air within the cylinder on the same plain as the bleeder. It can the migrate out the bleeder passage.
_________________
69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=

[addicted_2_vws]

The fluid has been replace. There is no pressure to the pedal. I tried bleeding just the fronts but, still nothing. There is enough pressure to have a stream of fluild for about 2 seconds then it dies off to a trickle out of the bleeder.. But, still absolutely no pedal.

[VW_Jimbo]

A simple check of the master, if the system has been bleed of air. Sit inside the vehicle and rapidly pump the brakes several times in a row. On the last push, hold the pedal firm. What does the pedal do?

Fall off rapidly, like there is no resistance?

Fall off slowly , like you had a glimmer of a pedal but it disappeared?

Is it hard at the half way point? Not at the top at all?

Or is it rock hard at the very top of the pedal travel?
_________________
Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[addicted_2_vws]

It does absolutely nothing. no pressure what so ever.

[Zundfolge1432]

[VW_Jimbo]

[VW_Jimbo]

[Zundfolge1432]

To be crystal clear we are not mixing fluids we are changing because we are flushing 100% to the new fluid. Web search will bring up conflicting information and people saying not to mix these, but to gain any benefit you'd be changing it not topping off. I've talked to people that have done this successfully and I'll take them at their word. In fact I'll be the guinea pig and do my own car this weekend. I've seen the damage caused by water I'm ready to embrace new technology

[VW_Jimbo]

[Cusser]

I don't think changing to DOT 5 will help, you have a different issue. I'd stick to DOT 3 or DOT 4 and figure out what the issue is.

Last fall when I resurrected my 1970 after 23 years sitting, I changed out the master cylinder with a Brazilian one, wheel cylinders with Raybestos made-in-china ones, new Wagner Thermo Quiet brake shoes, new flexible brake lines all round, new brake hoses from reservoir to master cylinder, and two Raybestos made-in-Germany rear drums (RockAuto.com). Yes, I was able to get the air out of the system and a good pedal.

Did I adjust the master cylinder push rod??? YES, I did.


If you tow this VW to Arizona I'll help you. Since PA to AZ is pretty far, I'm going to suggest to jack up one end onto jackstands, and use a floor jack or jackstands at the other end for this (do not go under the VW or any vehicle using just a a jack). Have a helper push down the brake pedal, see if either the front wheels or the rear wheels lock up like they should.

Your last issue was fronts fine, rears had a leak at the tee. One might assume the issue would be with the rears, but better to find out. You mentioned just a trickle of fluid coming out the fronts, not good. Autozone has loaner hand vacuum pumps if you want to try sucking fluid through, also consider gravity bleeding. And remember to adjust the brakes reasonably tight before bleeding them.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297