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Subaru conversion: Hall effect ring missing a magnet ~ SOLVED
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timichango
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:25 pm    Post subject: Subaru conversion: Hall effect ring missing a magnet ~ SOLVED Reply with quote

I've got a Smallcar EJ25 conversion in my van, and while climbing around under the thing the other day, noticed that there was a magnet missing from the hall effect sensor ring. The unit normally has 5 magnets (and a gap in the ring at the 6th interval — presumably to ease installation), but mine now has 4 magnets, and a little space where it used to reside.

To my amazement, while I was cleaning some grime under there, I subsequently *found* the damned magnet, magnetized to something else under the van.

I haven't been able to detect any erroneous speed readings at the scangauge, so I'm wondering if the absence of the 5th magnet is a big deal at all. if it is, I'll clean up the ring, and epoxy the magnet back into place. Otherwise, I'll leave it as is.

Thanks,
Tim
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Last edited by timichango on Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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wesitarz
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Subaru conversion — Hall effect sender ring missing a magnet Reply with quote

Four pulses is minimum,5 is closer to what the ECU sees in a Subaru. Lose another one and you will see VSS codes and maybe stalling. I would put it back on.

88 Wolfsburg Carat auto with 02 Subaru 2.5L
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timichango
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Subaru conversion — Hall effect sender ring missing a magnet Reply with quote

wesitarz wrote:
Four pulses is minimum,5 is closer to what the ECU sees in a Subaru. Lose another one and you will see VSS codes and maybe stalling. I would put it back on.

88 Wolfsburg Carat auto with 02 Subaru 2.5L



Awesome info — thanks. I'll clean the ring, and epoxy that sucker back in place. While I'm at it, I'm going to epoxy-reinforce the other little bastards so they don't also go for a walk on me.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:51 am    Post subject: Re: Subaru conversion — Hall effect sender ring missing a magnet Reply with quote

I think the N-S pole orientation should be the same as the other magnets. I believe it makes a difference to the sensor..... but I could be totally wrong on that. Laughing
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timichango
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Subaru conversion — Hall effect sender ring missing a magnet Reply with quote

dobryan wrote:
I think the N-S pole orientation should be the same as the other magnets. I believe it makes a difference to the sensor..... but I could be totally wrong on that. Laughing


In other words: I should try to figure out the polarity sequence on the other magnets, and install this one accordingly. Noted, and appreciated.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Subaru conversion — Hall effect sender ring missing a magnet Reply with quote

I'm guessing they're all in the same orientation. RMW sells one that has a rotating disc that looks like a 5-toothed gear, and relies on the magnet in the sensor to pick up the variance in the plate proximity as the teeth pass. Guessing the ECU is just expecting pulses?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:58 am    Post subject: Re: Subaru conversion — Hall effect sender ring missing a magnet Reply with quote

timichango wrote:
I'm guessing they're all in the same orientation. RMW sells one that has a rotating disc that looks like a 5-toothed gear, and relies on the magnet in the sensor to pick up the variance in the plate proximity as the teeth pass. Guessing the ECU is just expecting pulses?

Yup, that's all it wants - signs of life! Wink

If you use the Search, you can find a post from a Sambanista who made their own RMW reed switch VSS and did a nice job.

I'm using a Jetta cruise control switch in the speedo housing for the VSS.
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Last edited by Jake de Villiers on Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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timichango
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Subaru conversion — Hall effect sender ring missing a magnet Reply with quote

Jake de Villiers wrote:
timichango wrote:
I'm guessing they're all in the same orientation. RMW sells one that has a rotating disc that looks like a 5-toothed gear, and relies on the magnet in the sensor to pick up the variance in the plate proximity as the teeth pass. Guessing the ECU is just expecting pulses?

Yup, that's all it wants - signs of life! Wink

If you use the Search, you can find a post from a Sambanista who made their own RMW reed switch VSS and did a nice job.


Thanks Jake — really helpful, as usual! That confirmation is appreciated.

Ultimately I'm going to fix the one smallcar installed, and if it fails, I'll be replacing it with the RMW one, which seems more robust. Figure I've got too many projects to add "make a hall effect sensor" to the list Smile

Jake de Villiers wrote:

I'm using a Jetta cruise control switch in the speedo housing.


For what?
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:46 am    Post subject: Re: Subaru conversion — Hall effect sender ring missing a magnet Reply with quote

timichango wrote:
Jake de Villiers wrote:
timichango wrote:
I'm guessing they're all in the same orientation. RMW sells one that has a rotating disc that looks like a 5-toothed gear, and relies on the magnet in the sensor to pick up the variance in the plate proximity as the teeth pass. Guessing the ECU is just expecting pulses?

Yup, that's all it wants - signs of life! Wink

If you use the Search, you can find a post from a Sambanista who made their own RMW reed switch VSS and did a nice job.


Thanks Jake — really helpful, as usual! That confirmation is appreciated.

Ultimately I'm going to fix the one smallcar installed, and if it fails, I'll be replacing it with the RMW one, which seems more robust. Figure I've got too many projects to add "make a hall effect sensor" to the list Smile

Jake de Villiers wrote:

I'm using a Jetta cruise control switch in the speedo housing for my VSS.


For what?


I apologize! I like to keep it brief on the forum rather than blathering on, but this time I stopped a little too soon...

For the VSS, I meant.
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timichango
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Subaru conversion — Hall effect sender ring missing a magnet Reply with quote

Jake de Villiers wrote:

Yup, that's all it wants - signs of life! Wink


OK, so I reinstalled the 5th magnet in the VSS, and now I have another apparent problem: my speed readings, via the scangauge, from the subaru ECU, are reading high by about 20%!!!!

Shot in the dark here: any chance that the ECU had previously adjusted to the signal from the VSS when it was missing the magnet, and now it's misreading the new pulse frequency from the VSS as the wrong speed?

If that's the case, how do I reset the ECU, and get it to report the speed correctly?

Aaaaargh.

Thanks,
Tim
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Subaru conversion — Hall effect sender ring missing a magnet Reply with quote

There is a setting on the scangauge where you can adjust the speed reading by a percentage factor. Not sure how I accessed it many moons ago.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

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timichango
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Subaru conversion — Hall effect sender ring missing a magnet Reply with quote

dobryan wrote:
There is a setting on the scangauge where you can adjust the speed reading by a percentage factor. Not sure how I accessed it many moons ago.


Hey, Dobryan,

Yep — I know exactly where that setting is, as I tweaked it to perfection back in 2012 when we had the conversion done, and our larger wheels installed at the same time.

I can definitely bring the Scangauge itself back in line with the speedo that way, but I'm concerned that the ECU itself thinks the van is now going 20% faster. I'm assuming that the ECU makes use of that information to manage the engine functionality/timing in some way?

Or does the Engine/ECU only really care about the RPMs it's turning, and not really use the VSS information in any meaningful way? In other words, is that VSS signal essentially just getting passed along verbatim to the Scangauge, with no other consequence to the engine/ECU due to the change in the VSS signal?

Just concerned about somehow damaging the engine by inadvertently making it mismanage itself due to this change.

I'm pulled over currently at a coffee stop off the highway, concerned about any ill-effects this may have if I continue.

Thanks,
Tim
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timichango
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Subaru conversion — Hall effect sender ring missing a magnet Reply with quote

Anyone have any ideas about the above? Does the Subaru ECU actually care what the VSS is throwing, as long as it's providing an in-range (ie. adequate pulses per minute) signal?

Can I simply recalibrate the Scangauge, and be on my way? Or do I need to get the ECU itself to recalibrate somehow?

I've got the ground off of the starter/main battery currently on the off chance that resetting the ECU will have an effect (ie. get the ECU to recalibrate), but I don't even know if the ECU actually even *does* do any self-calibration re:speed based on the VSS signal.

Sincere Thanks,
Tim
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Subaru conversion — Hall effect sender ring missing a magnet Reply with quote

Update: seems like I've managed to fix it. ECU reset seems to have had an effect on the speed shown by the Scangauge. Still had to tweak the calibration on the scangauge some, but not by as much as before the reset, so I'm assuming that the ECU is happy — just drove ~15 km on the highway, and everything seems ticketty-boo now.

Phew. Thanks again, all.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Subaru conversion: Hall effect ring missing a magnet ~ SOLVED Reply with quote

Great!
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'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:57 am    Post subject: Re: Subaru conversion: Hall effect ring missing a magnet ~ SOLVED Reply with quote

Sorry I missed this, Tim. The Subaru ECM learns as it goes and will adapt to the changes it sees via the various sensor inputs.

Nothing to worry about.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:52 am    Post subject: Re: Subaru conversion: Hall effect ring missing a magnet ~ SOLVED Reply with quote

Jake de Villiers wrote:
Sorry I missed this, Tim. The Subaru ECM learns as it goes and will adapt to the changes it sees via the various sensor inputs.

Nothing to worry about.



Hah! No worries man! Actually, getting stuck where I did wasn't so bad. Stopped at Brittania Beach to grab a coffee and try figuring out a way to reset the ECU. Tried one thing (that didn't work), and rolled down the highway a bit further to Porteau Cove, which is always stunningly beautiful, and yesterday the weather was unusually fine.

The whole episode was actually kinda serendipitous, and — as oft happens with these damn vans — I had a cool encounter thanks to the VSS weirdness:

I pull over at Porteau cove to try and troubleshoot. Within 10 seconds, a big portly beardy guy — also named Tim, also a Westfalia owner — comes up and starts enthusiastically chatting about the van.

Guy was on a road-trip without his Westfalia (his dad was borrowing it back in Massachusetts), but saw my rig and ran over to say hi and talk vans.

Turns out his van also has a Subaru engine conversion — and while I was jawing about my current conundrum with him, the idea of pulling the battery ground for a half-hour to reset the ECU came up (d'oh, didn't think of doing that initially).

I give him the lowdown on some cool free camping spots near Squamish, have a hilarious 45 minute conversation about vans and life and a bunch of other crap, reconnected the battery, went for a spin around the parking lot, and lo — fixed!

Sadly never got his contact details — he vanished up the road while I was reconnecting the batt and testing things out — but such is the mystical way of the road and the Westy.

May the breeze be ever at his back, and may the head-gaskets on his Subie be made of... some kind of indestructible head gasket stuff.
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Jake de Villiers
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Subaru conversion: Hall effect ring missing a magnet ~ SOLVED Reply with quote

timichango wrote:
Jake de Villiers wrote:
Sorry I missed this, Tim. The Subaru ECM learns as it goes and will adapt to the changes it sees via the various sensor inputs.

Nothing to worry about.



Hah! No worries man! Actually, getting stuck where I did wasn't so bad. Stopped at Brittania Beach to grab a coffee and try figuring out a way to reset the ECU. Tried one thing (that didn't work), and rolled down the highway a bit further to Porteau Cove, which is always stunningly beautiful, and yesterday the weather was unusually fine.

The whole episode was actually kinda serendipitous, and — as oft happens with these damn vans — I had a cool encounter thanks to the VSS weirdness:

I pull over at Porteau cove to try and troubleshoot. Within 10 seconds, a big portly beardy guy — also named Tim, also a Westfalia owner — comes up and starts enthusiastically chatting about the van.

Guy was on a road-trip without his Westfalia (his dad was borrowing it back in Massachusetts), but saw my rig and ran over to say hi and talk vans.

Turns out his van also has a Subaru engine conversion — and while I was jawing about my current conundrum with him, the idea of pulling the battery ground for a half-hour to reset the ECU came up (d'oh, didn't think of doing that initially).

I give him the lowdown on some cool free camping spots near Squamish, have a hilarious 45 minute conversation about vans and life and a bunch of other crap, reconnected the battery, went for a spin around the parking lot, and lo — fixed!

Sadly never got his contact details — he vanished up the road while I was reconnecting the batt and testing things out — but such is the mystical way of the road and the Westy.

May the breeze be ever at his back, and may the head-gaskets on his Subie be made of... some kind of indestructible head gasket stuff.

Very cool!
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'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
@jakedevilliersmusic1
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
www.thebassspa.com
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