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markj60616
Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2013
Posts: 130
Location: Chicago
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 Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:36 am Post subject: 113905205AH distributor |
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I am refreshing a 113905205AH for my friend.
I noticed in the Bentley manual (Engine section page 54) that the vacuum advance on this distributor is 2-5 degrees. That is significantly lower than any other distributor on the page. Anyone know why? Just curious.
By the way, although my friend has a 1974, the 113905205AH is the correct distributor that goes with his 34 PICT-3 carb flange number. The engine is an unknown rebuilt 1600 dual port. No engine number. I should mention that the car is an autostick.
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1970 Type 1
original paint
original interior
original engine
1978 Type 2 Panel Bus
original engine 2.0L FI
2014 Beetle 2.5L |
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71superAS
Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2012
Posts: 223
Location: New York
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| Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: 113905205AH distributor |
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| markj60616 wrote: |
I am refreshing a 113905205AH for my friend.
I noticed in the Bentley manual (Engine section page 54) that the vacuum advance on this distributor is 2-5 degrees. That is significantly lower than any other distributor on the page. Anyone know why? Just curious.
By the way, although my friend has a 1974, the 113905205AH is the correct distributor that goes with his 34 PICT-3 carb flange number. The engine is an unknown rebuilt 1600 dual port. No engine number. I should mention that the car is an autostick. |
The Autostick starter has a really healthy advance curve. The AH (I learned) was the stock AS distributor for a 71, I just got a rebuilt AH myself.
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51149
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:41 pm Post subject: Re: 113905205AH distributor |
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| markj60616 wrote: |
| I noticed in the Bentley manual (Engine section page 54) that the vacuum advance on this distributor is 2-5 degrees. That is significantly lower than any other distributor on the page. Anyone know why? Just curious.. |
Look at both the vacuum and mechanical curves as well as how much vacuum or RPM it occurs at, some have more mechanical, others more vacuum, and they all happen at different speeds and loads depending on how heavy the car is and how it's geared. Something that's heavy and accelerates slow will usually have a stronger mechanical advance and minimal vacuum to avoid detonation in the middle of a long pull until the revs catch up, light quick cars can use the big shot of vacuum advance up front that the distributors curved towards them provide. (readers digest version, it's much more complicated than that).
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: 113905205AH distributor |
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| markj60616 wrote: |
I am refreshing a 113905205AH for my friend.
I noticed in the Bentley manual (Engine section page 54) that the vacuum advance on this distributor is 2-5 degrees. That is significantly lower than any other distributor on the page. Anyone know why? Just curious.
By the way, although my friend has a 1974, the 113905205AH is the correct distributor that goes with his 34 PICT-3 carb flange number. The engine is an unknown rebuilt 1600 dual port. No engine number. I should mention that the car is an autostick. |
If he decides he doesn't want it for any particular reason please keep me in mind!! I have been looking for an AH for a while for my 72 super autostick. |
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wcfvw69 
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:21 pm Post subject: Re: 113905205AH distributor |
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The 205AH is a bug autostick distributor and uses the same 1237121853 DVDA vacuum canister as the 211905205Q 1971 bus distributor. The 205Q was the last Bosch distributor installed in a type 1 engine for a bus in the USA. In 1972 buses went to type 4 engines.
Both distributors provide the same exact advance at the same RPMS. So, you can use either distributor in either application. I've run both a 205AH and a 205Q in my dual port bus. No difference was noticed. Both are excellent distributors after restoration and matched to the correct German Bosch 34-3 DVDA carb.
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markj60616
Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2013
Posts: 130
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 5:32 am Post subject: Re: 113905205AH distributor |
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All of the 1970-1979 distributors on page 54 of the engine section of the orange Bentley manual have very similar centrifugal advances...the noticeably smaller vacuum advance of the AH still stands out to me and makes me wonder why.
_________________
1970 Type 1
original paint
original interior
original engine
1978 Type 2 Panel Bus
original engine 2.0L FI
2014 Beetle 2.5L |
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:03 am Post subject: Re: 113905205AH distributor |
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| markj60616 wrote: |
| All of the 1970-1979 distributors on page 54 of the engine section of the orange Bentley manual have very similar centrifugal advances...the noticeably smaller vacuum advance of the AH still stands out to me and makes me wonder why. |
Yes you are correct the AH distributor and it's Q counterpart used the 07092 canister with a 2-5° advance curve- lower than any other vacuum canister rating I've seen including other DVDA autostick distributors.
I tracked down a good working 113-905-205AM distributor for a very good price which was used on the 72 non-US model autosticks and is supposed to use the same 07092 canister but unfortunately the canister on it was shot, the seller said he coud put a good 07102 canister on it instead which is the next lowest advance curve I could find (5-8°) which I suppose would work but I would obviously rather have the correct one. Too bad there was no other canister ever made with a rating this low.
You can buy 07092 canisters lots of places (even rockauto has one) but since they are used on the type 2 buses with the Q distributor, for some reason they are extremely popular and everyone wants at least $90-$100 for one-- kind of defeats the pupose of finding a good deal on the distributor itself.  |
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markj60616
Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2013
Posts: 130
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: 113905205AH distributor |
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I have a working canister for the AH distributor for my friend...I was just wondering if anyone could explain why that particular distributor had such a low vacuum advance compared to the others.
_________________
1970 Type 1
original paint
original interior
original engine
1978 Type 2 Panel Bus
original engine 2.0L FI
2014 Beetle 2.5L |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51149
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:02 pm Post subject: Re: 113905205AH distributor |
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Because it's meant for a sluggish car.
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markj60616
Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2013
Posts: 130
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:22 am Post subject: Re: 113905205AH distributor |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
| Because it's meant for a sluggish car. |
Thanks Busdaddy...this makes sense to me as does your earlier reply. What I'm still curious about is comparing my 1970 autostick distributor (AD) to my friend's AH distributor. Both are, to use your term, "sluggish" autosticks and have similar centrifugal ranges but very different vacuum advance ranges. What made VW change this from 1970 to 1971ish is my curiosity.
Compare:
1970 single port 1600 autostick distributor 113905205AD
centrifugal up to 28 degrees
vacuum advance up to 12 degrees
1971-1973 dual port 1600 autostick distributor 113905205AH
centrifugal up to 25 degrees
vacuum advance up to 5 degrees
_________________
1970 Type 1
original paint
original interior
original engine
1978 Type 2 Panel Bus
original engine 2.0L FI
2014 Beetle 2.5L |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51149
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:18 am Post subject: Re: 113905205AH distributor |
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| markj60616 wrote: |
| What made VW change this from 1970 to 1971ish is my curiosity. |
Different carb, different manifold and ports, different torque curves and changing smog laws. Gotta keep that exhaust hot to reduce emissions.
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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heimlich
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 6616
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: 113905205AH distributor |
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So they actually had a reason to change the distributors every year?
That would make me assume one would need to match a distributor with the exact specifications of the engine built for that year. Is that simple to do? |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51149
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:06 pm Post subject: Re: 113905205AH distributor |
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| kawfee wrote: |
So they actually had a reason to change the distributors every year?
That would make me assume one would need to match a distributor with the exact specifications of the engine built for that year. Is that simple to do? |
The distributor # has to match up with the carb base# at the very least, compression ratios and transmission gearing also play a part if you really want it to work perfectly.
Every car rolled off the boat with a precise combination of parts suited to that particular setup, jetting, vaccum porting, compression, advance curves, exhaust and gear ratios, the differences are subtle but you do notice it when you match all the things up as intended. Until you've driven a VW with all the correct parts functioning as intended you'll never know how nicely they really can work.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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markj60616
Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2013
Posts: 130
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:53 am Post subject: Re: 113905205AH distributor |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
| kawfee wrote: |
So they actually had a reason to change the distributors every year?
That would make me assume one would need to match a distributor with the exact specifications of the engine built for that year. Is that simple to do? |
The distributor # has to match up with the carb base# at the very least, compression ratios and transmission gearing also play a part if you really want it to work perfectly.
Every car rolled off the boat with a precise combination of parts suited to that particular setup, jetting, vaccum porting, compression, advance curves, exhaust and gear ratios, the differences are subtle but you do notice it when you match all the things up as intended. Until you've driven a VW with all the correct parts functioning as intended you'll never know how nicely they really can work. |
Yes! I know! My recent thread about my 1970:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=679355
_________________
1970 Type 1
original paint
original interior
original engine
1978 Type 2 Panel Bus
original engine 2.0L FI
2014 Beetle 2.5L |
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heimlich
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 6616
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:38 am Post subject: Re: 113905205AH distributor |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
| kawfee wrote: |
So they actually had a reason to change the distributors every year?
That would make me assume one would need to match a distributor with the exact specifications of the engine built for that year. Is that simple to do? |
The distributor # has to match up with the carb base# at the very least, compression ratios and transmission gearing also play a part if you really want it to work perfectly.
Every car rolled off the boat with a precise combination of parts suited to that particular setup, jetting, vaccum porting, compression, advance curves, exhaust and gear ratios, the differences are subtle but you do notice it when you match all the things up as intended. Until you've driven a VW with all the correct parts functioning as intended you'll never know how nicely they really can work. |
Busdaddy, I am down with that. I switched from a 009 to a made for my car distributor. It's really nice. |
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markj60616
Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2013
Posts: 130
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:00 am Post subject: Re: 113905205AH distributor |
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Here is my friend's 1974 with the AH distributor installed and dialed in!
_________________
1970 Type 1
original paint
original interior
original engine
1978 Type 2 Panel Bus
original engine 2.0L FI
2014 Beetle 2.5L |
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71superAS
Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2012
Posts: 223
Location: New York
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:37 am Post subject: Re: 113905205AH distributor |
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| markj60616 wrote: |
Here is my friend's 1974 with the AH distributor installed and dialed in!
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On the vac can, where does the front tube connect to? I see the rear goes to the carb.
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51149
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: 113905205AH distributor |
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The front hose connects to the shepherds hook hard line the green and black hoses are looped through (behind the coil in that pic), it goes into the left side of the carb above the volume screw.
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