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DONGKG The Araneta Boys
Joined: August 28, 2006 Posts: 5475 Location: Cainta, Rizal, Philippines, "A Certified Type 3 and Karmann Ghia Maniac"
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Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:03 am Post subject: Fram Tractor Vintage Filter |
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Good day, I got this Fram Tractor Vintage Filter that I intend to install on my Karmann Ghia. Is it okay to install it or it i too big for its application. It is only the volume of oil that it can hold that is different; however, everything is just the same. It can even be used as an additional oil capacity for the engine. Something like a dry sump type used by Porsche.
This is the picture
http://file.vintageadbrowser.com/oxnn4zesm5n8qx.jpg
Thanks in advance,
DongKG _________________ '67 KG Cabrio (Mickey) ;
'66 Type 3 (Sharky 2)
'72 Type 2 Homey
'67 Splitty Bus
'65 beetle;'69 Country Buggy; '44 Kubelwagen (replica) TOOB MEMBER #20 |
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gimmesomeshelter Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2004 Posts: 1466 Location: San Carlos, CA
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Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:33 am Post subject: Re: Fram Tractor Vintage Filter |
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The only downside I can think of is more oil = more time to heat up oil.
Cheers,
Paul _________________ "I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned."
Richard Feynman |
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DONGKG The Araneta Boys
Joined: August 28, 2006 Posts: 5475 Location: Cainta, Rizal, Philippines, "A Certified Type 3 and Karmann Ghia Maniac"
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:11 am Post subject: Re: Fram Tractor Vintage Filter |
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gimmesomeshelter wrote: |
The only downside I can think of is more oil = more time to heat up oil.
Cheers,
Paul |
Yeah I can see that. But what is your consideration of the possibility of loss oil pressure? _________________ '67 KG Cabrio (Mickey) ;
'66 Type 3 (Sharky 2)
'72 Type 2 Homey
'67 Splitty Bus
'65 beetle;'69 Country Buggy; '44 Kubelwagen (replica) TOOB MEMBER #20 |
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gimmesomeshelter Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2004 Posts: 1466 Location: San Carlos, CA
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:19 am Post subject: Re: Fram Tractor Vintage Filter |
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I have the shorter version of this filter, the one used by Denzel. If I can ever finish my engine, I'll definitely collect oil pressure data. My fear is that at some RPM level, some part of the filter system will a choke point, and oil pressure will take a dive.
Cheers,
Paul _________________ "I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned."
Richard Feynman |
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DONGKG The Araneta Boys
Joined: August 28, 2006 Posts: 5475 Location: Cainta, Rizal, Philippines, "A Certified Type 3 and Karmann Ghia Maniac"
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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:06 am Post subject: Re: Fram Tractor Vintage Filter |
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Yes me too. I have the shorter version too. Installed on my '67 splitty bus, '65 vintage speed theme and '72 baywindow camper. But this one the longer version i got the other day, I would like to install it on my Karmann Ghia. My motive is that, aside from its filtering capability, I also intend it to be as a dry sump type that houses about 2 liters of oil, which adds to the 2 1/2 oil capacity of the stock engine. The oil sump if installed underneath my Karmann's engine is so scary. Ii may hit some bumps. I don't want to damage the engine.
Thanks,
Dong _________________ '67 KG Cabrio (Mickey) ;
'66 Type 3 (Sharky 2)
'72 Type 2 Homey
'67 Splitty Bus
'65 beetle;'69 Country Buggy; '44 Kubelwagen (replica) TOOB MEMBER #20 |
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rockerarm Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2009 Posts: 3552 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Fram Tractor Vintage Filter |
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Hi. The filter set-up you are looking at should be a by-pass filter. Its theory is that it takes a very small volume of oil thru a filter and return the oil to the sump. Nowadays by-pass filters are available to filter smaller debris than the normal filter.
The Baldwin by-pass filter on my Bay bus has a return orifice that looks to be approx. 1mm, which is .040", in dia. That's pretty small and will not affect oil pressure in a normal engine. Remember these by-pass set-ups have been around for decades. You can research current by-pass filtering at www.bobistheoilguy.com where they have a dedicated section for this.
The original 356/912 filter housings held about 1/2 to 3/4 qt, as I recall. With the larger housing I'd be more concerned with having a strong mounting vs any additional oil taking longer to warm up.
Just make sure the return orifice is small enough so as not to rob the engine of needed oil volume.
Hope this helps, Bill. |
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Kjell Roar Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2008 Posts: 1326 Location: Norway
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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:18 am Post subject: Re: Fram Tractor Vintage Filter |
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As far as I can see, the oil bypasses the filter, and goes back into the engine. It should not be any amount of oil in the filter, except for the oil passing through.
So the size of the filter should not affect the amount of oil the engine need.
A little amount of oil will be in the filter and pressure side hose, but if you check the oil regularly, and keep it in the upper half on the stick, I see no problem. _________________ I got a historic car, every scratch got a history...
My car, Aug. 4th, 1955 / an early 56: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=610438 |
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DONGKG The Araneta Boys
Joined: August 28, 2006 Posts: 5475 Location: Cainta, Rizal, Philippines, "A Certified Type 3 and Karmann Ghia Maniac"
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:02 am Post subject: Re: Fram Tractor Vintage Filter |
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rockerarm wrote: |
Hi. The filter set-up you are looking at should be a by-pass filter. Its theory is that it takes a very small volume of oil thru a filter and return the oil to the sump. Nowadays by-pass filters are available to filter smaller debris than the normal filter.
The Baldwin by-pass filter on my Bay bus has a return orifice that looks to be approx. 1mm, which is .040", in dia. That's pretty small and will not affect oil pressure in a normal engine. Remember these by-pass set-ups have been around for decades. You can research current by-pass filtering at www.bobistheoilguy.com where they have a dedicated section for this.
The original 356/912 filter housings held about 1/2 to 3/4 qt, as I recall. With the larger housing I'd be more concerned with having a strong mounting vs any additional oil taking longer to warm up.
Just make sure the return orifice is small enough so as not to rob the engine of needed oil volume.
Hope this helps, Bill. |
I have been out for a while on theSamba. Sorry for the late reply! Thanks for that sound advice. I checked the outlet hole and it is so small that no needed oil pressure will be wasted!.
Thanks again! _________________ '67 KG Cabrio (Mickey) ;
'66 Type 3 (Sharky 2)
'72 Type 2 Homey
'67 Splitty Bus
'65 beetle;'69 Country Buggy; '44 Kubelwagen (replica) TOOB MEMBER #20 |
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DONGKG The Araneta Boys
Joined: August 28, 2006 Posts: 5475 Location: Cainta, Rizal, Philippines, "A Certified Type 3 and Karmann Ghia Maniac"
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:02 am Post subject: Re: Fram Tractor Vintage Filter |
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Kjell Roar wrote: |
As far as I can see, the oil bypasses the filter, and goes back into the engine. It should not be any amount of oil in the filter, except for the oil passing through.
So the size of the filter should not affect the amount of oil the engine need.
A little amount of oil will be in the filter and pressure side hose, but if you check the oil regularly, and keep it in the upper half on the stick, I see no problem. |
Sorry for the late reply! Yes, thanks for that one! _________________ '67 KG Cabrio (Mickey) ;
'66 Type 3 (Sharky 2)
'72 Type 2 Homey
'67 Splitty Bus
'65 beetle;'69 Country Buggy; '44 Kubelwagen (replica) TOOB MEMBER #20 |
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DONGKG The Araneta Boys
Joined: August 28, 2006 Posts: 5475 Location: Cainta, Rizal, Philippines, "A Certified Type 3 and Karmann Ghia Maniac"
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:09 am Post subject: Re: Fram Tractor Vintage Filter |
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By the way, this is the bigger remote filter that I am referring to that I installed on my Karmann ghia.
I was thinking of using the bigger one for extra oil capacity.
This was the NOS Fram Filter that I just opened.
After opening the NOS Fram Filter, a NOS instructional manual appeared.
These are the fittings I bought from a nearby hydraulic machine shop.
The small hole on the base of the alternator stand is utilized for the return of the filtered oil to the engine from the Fram.
I painted the Kadron's air cleaners to give them a fresh look.
This is the fuel line that I made. I patterned it from the original fuel line of Kardon to give it a vintage appeal.
After fabricating the brackets, I applied some paint.
I also used this vintage fuel filter for the engine to have a vintage style.
The junction of the fuel line on a closer look.
I also installed an external NOS Fram oil filter. At first I used my extra small canister.
But, later on, I installed this bigger Fram Filter. So also, the hose I first bought were old and they blew off. Hence, I went to the hydraulic machine shop and asked then to make me a new steel braided high-pressure hoses that worked pretty well.
Thanks. _________________ '67 KG Cabrio (Mickey) ;
'66 Type 3 (Sharky 2)
'72 Type 2 Homey
'67 Splitty Bus
'65 beetle;'69 Country Buggy; '44 Kubelwagen (replica) TOOB MEMBER #20 |
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Lingwendil Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009 Posts: 3988 Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5969 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:36 pm Post subject: Re: Fram Tractor Vintage Filter |
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DONGKG wrote: |
The small hole on the base of the alternator stand is utilized for the return of the filtered oil to the engine from the Fram.
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Is this how others have installed the bypass filters? I have to say I'm not a fan of having an open pressurized oil line dumping back into the sump. I would want to see it plumbed back into the pressure side of the system. In fact, I just sold a few 912 engines, and I'm pretty sure they return oil back to the top rear of the case, near the rear main bearing. Dumping into the sump has the potential to lower your oil pressure, especially during borderline situations (hot idle) when you need it. _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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Lingwendil Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009 Posts: 3988 Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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DONGKG The Araneta Boys
Joined: August 28, 2006 Posts: 5475 Location: Cainta, Rizal, Philippines, "A Certified Type 3 and Karmann Ghia Maniac"
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DONGKG The Araneta Boys
Joined: August 28, 2006 Posts: 5475 Location: Cainta, Rizal, Philippines, "A Certified Type 3 and Karmann Ghia Maniac"
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: Fram Tractor Vintage Filter |
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esde wrote: |
DONGKG wrote: |
The small hole on the base of the alternator stand is utilized for the return of the filtered oil to the engine from the Fram.
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Is this how others have installed the bypass filters? I have to say I'm not a fan of having an open pressurized oil line dumping back into the sump. I would want to see it plumbed back into the pressure side of the system. In fact, I just sold a few 912 engines, and I'm pretty sure they return oil back to the top rear of the case, near the rear main bearing. Dumping into the sump has the potential to lower your oil pressure, especially during borderline situations (hot idle) when you need it. |
For now that is the most practical route for the oil going bacj to the engine. Thanks for the inputs. _________________ '67 KG Cabrio (Mickey) ;
'66 Type 3 (Sharky 2)
'72 Type 2 Homey
'67 Splitty Bus
'65 beetle;'69 Country Buggy; '44 Kubelwagen (replica) TOOB MEMBER #20 |
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DONGKG The Araneta Boys
Joined: August 28, 2006 Posts: 5475 Location: Cainta, Rizal, Philippines, "A Certified Type 3 and Karmann Ghia Maniac"
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: Fram Tractor Vintage Filter |
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Though this had been made about a year ago. Nevertheless it is worth sharing. I also fabricated an oil cooler in a vintage speed theme.
The tube that will be used to mimic the okrasa style oil cooler.
A little of twisting and all, there you have it, a spiral-like tubing.
I welded the swivel elbow fittings for the braided hose.
A view from the outside looking into the back of the engine with the spiral tubing hidden from the prying eyes.
the hose on the left is coming from the Fram canister oil filter and the hose on the right is where the cooled oil passes back to the engine.
The return. It is quite awesome because once the engine is in its normal operating temperature, touching the tubing on the left reveals that the oils is hotter and when you touch the tube on the right it is immediately noticeable how the temperature dropped dramatically. It work! _________________ '67 KG Cabrio (Mickey) ;
'66 Type 3 (Sharky 2)
'72 Type 2 Homey
'67 Splitty Bus
'65 beetle;'69 Country Buggy; '44 Kubelwagen (replica) TOOB MEMBER #20 |
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