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(Update) 1970 Westfalia 1641 DP compression test
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westysmb
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:06 am    Post subject: (Update) 1970 Westfalia 1641 DP compression test Reply with quote

(Please see the second page for 9/5/2017 update with compression numbers)

Hey Everyone,

The oil breather on the bus I just bought is left open. There isn't a charcoal canister or anything in the top passenger side for it to attach to.

Where would be the best alternative to route this to so I don't just leave it exposed and have oil spraying everywhere?

The pictures below show the entire engine, the opening under the oil cap, missing charcoal canister(?), and another opening below the air filter.

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Thanks!
Mario
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Last edited by westysmb on Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:31 am; edited 2 times in total
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:21 am    Post subject: Re: 1970 Westfalia 1600 oil breather opening Reply with quote

Holy shit Batman. Your engine really sucks. I don't know you, what you are doing, how much money you have, or how much knowledge about mechanics you have but I'd almost say you should start over from scratch on this engine.

Sorry to be so rough but I see several years of crappy work going on here. As far as the breather goes what you really need to do is adapt a hose to fit onto the larger diameter nipple near the oil cap and route it to the smaller diameter nipple on the air cleaner.

Edit: The missing charcoal canister is used for the fuel tank vapor recovery system, not engine breather
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williamM
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:25 am    Post subject: Re: 1970 Westfalia 1600 oil breather opening Reply with quote

Embarassed those rock sorting air cleaners on a bus are motor death.- go with an oil bath stock air cleaner- follow the hook ups and then sort out your other stuff-
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:06 am    Post subject: Re: 1970 Westfalia 1600 oil breather opening Reply with quote

Hello, Well to start off with, welcome too the Zoo.
As, our very special aeromech pointed out so eloquently... You do have some issues with that's going on in there. Man, you do have some work ahead of you. Yet, it can be made correct again.
If that's the condition of the engine area, I can't wait to see pictures of the other goodies this bus has to offer. Some people (POs) shouldn't fix things....
But, it should be fine, with some time, money and some good mechanical knowledge... In no time, you will be a VW Baywindow Bus expert. Get some good books and manuals, if this is your first VW/bus...
Once again, welcome to the zoo.
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Tcash Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:31 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Westfalia 1600 oil breather opening Reply with quote

Welcome to TheSamba Bay windows!

What year is your bus?

Tcash
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:38 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Westfalia 1600 oil breather opening Reply with quote

You need to route a hose from the fitting on the filler to the air cleaner, and yes, get the oil bath aircleaner. Your engine does not seem to be souped up to the point of needing a fancy air cleaner, so the oil bath is going to be the most efficient at keeping your engine alive and will give you all the correct hookups for things like this! Your pre-heat for the air is also not going to happen until you do something. Depending on where you live, that may also help out.

Good Luck!

Chris
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:41 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Westfalia 1600 oil breather opening Reply with quote

click on links
Air Cleaner ID T2
Evaporative Emission Control EVAP/Charcoal, Carbon Canister
#7 is a bug firewall front tin. You need a bus front tin.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7441584#7441584
thnx lintbrush
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1263520.jpg
Youtube tin vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4z0cP7-oVM&list=PL5F64A01FA2D7E128

Just to give you an idea of what the engine is supposed to come with.
thnx busdaddy
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westysmb
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:56 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Westfalia 1600 oil breather opening Reply with quote

aeromech wrote:
Holy shit Batman. Your engine really sucks. I don't know you, what you are doing, how much money you have, or how much knowledge about mechanics you have but I'd almost say you should start over from scratch on this engine.

Sorry to be so rough but I see several years of crappy work going on here. As far as the breather goes what you really need to do is adapt a hose to fit onto the larger diameter nipple near the oil cap and route it to the smaller diameter nipple on the air cleaner.

Edit: The missing charcoal canister is used for the fuel tank vapor recovery system, not engine breather


Honestly, I figured it was rough, but I didn't think it was as bad as you put it. I'm not looking to spend a ton of money on the bus since I picked it up for a fairly reasonable price. Thanks for the brutal honesty!

Now, I'm not VW knowledgeable, but not completely automotive illiterate either. I've mostly worked on newer Ford engines (mostly 2v and 3v 4.6L).

When you say start from scratch, do you mean pull the engine out and rebuild it completely, or just more of reconnecting everything and touching every part without tearing into the engine?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:57 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Westfalia 1600 oil breather opening Reply with quote

williamM wrote:
Embarassed those rock sorting air cleaners on a bus are motor death.- go with an oil bath stock air cleaner- follow the hook ups and then sort out your other stuff-


Good to know before I put any serious driving on it. I'll look for the stock parts.

If anyone knows where to source a stock air cleaner, please let me know!
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westysmb
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:02 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Westfalia 1600 oil breather opening Reply with quote

Angus II wrote:
Hello, Well to start off with, welcome too the Zoo.
As, our very special aeromech pointed out so eloquently... You do have some issues with that's going on in there. Man, you do have some work ahead of you. Yet, it can be made correct again.
If that's the condition of the engine area, I can't wait to see pictures of the other goodies this bus has to offer. Some people (POs) shouldn't fix things....
But, it should be fine, with some time, money and some good mechanical knowledge... In no time, you will be a VW Baywindow Bus expert. Get some good books and manuals, if this is your first VW/bus...
Once again, welcome to the zoo.


The rest of the bus is rough! Far from the prettiest, probably one of the more ugly on the road. More pictures will come with time. I actually have a few more threads that will be posted soon to show more of the PO's hackjob work with questions on how to remedy it.

I hope to some day get to the bay window expert level! I've been lurking on the samba, reading what I can and have already picked up a Bentley.

Thanks for the welcome! It'll be a wild ride.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:03 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Westfalia 1600 oil breather opening Reply with quote

Tcash wrote:
Welcome to TheSamba Bay windows!

What year is your bus?

Tcash


Thanks for the welcome! It's a 1970.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Westfalia 1600 oil breather opening Reply with quote

ccowx wrote:
You need to route a hose from the fitting on the filler to the air cleaner, and yes, get the oil bath aircleaner. Your engine does not seem to be souped up to the point of needing a fancy air cleaner, so the oil bath is going to be the most efficient at keeping your engine alive and will give you all the correct hookups for things like this! Your pre-heat for the air is also not going to happen until you do something. Depending on where you live, that may also help out.

Good Luck!

Chris


Per the PO, it was pretty much a stock rebuild at some point in time. I'll be looking for one, if you happen to see one, please let me konw. I've updated my location on my profile, so it should show now. I'm in San Antonio, Tx.

What do you mean by my "pre-heat for the air?"
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:11 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Westfalia 1600 oil breather opening Reply with quote

Tcash wrote:
click on links
Air Cleaner ID T2
Evaporative Emission Control EVAP/Charcoal, Carbon Canister
#7 is a bug firewall front tin. You need a bus front tin.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7441584#7441584
thnx lintbrush
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1263520.jpg
Youtube tin vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4z0cP7-oVM&list=PL5F64A01FA2D7E128

Just to give you an idea of what the engine is supposed to come with.
thnx busdaddy
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Thanks for the links and the picture! They'll be a great help. And wow, it looks like an entirely different animal from the stock setup.

I'll keep reading and looking for the missing parts. If you happen to know a source for what I'm missing, please let me know!
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Westfalia 1600 oil breather opening Reply with quote

Welcome!
You don't absolutely need to have every single little gizmo and part in place to have a reliable bus, but they do work better when everything is there and set up correctly. Your engine has all the signs of a build by someone who doesn't know what they are doing, reads too many magazines and listens to fables passed down by others who really don't understand VW's either, it takes a hell of a big brain to outsmart an office tower full of meticulous German engineers, very few succeed.

If I was confronted with that cluster I'd do a compression test and confirm it's healthy enough to proceed, then I'd drop the engine and pull the shroud for a look to make sure the oil cooler has its foam seal, Hoover bit and exhaust ducting as well as confirm the tin has all the vanes required for proper cooling air flow and seals well. I'd also confirm the fan is the correct width and the fan hub and pulleys result in correct belt alignment, I'd locate a better air filter and an intake manifold with working heat risers and check the numbers on the jets in the carb too. All new fuel lines (SAE J30R9 or better) are critical as well.

Air cooled engines need fresh cool air to work properly, if you can see the road from anywhere above warm air will recirculate through those gaps and compromise the cooling, leaks in the shroud or tins doesn't help either. Put a light under the engine at night and look for light from inside the engine compartment.

It may not self destruct the next time you drive it as is, but a day or two's work and a few parts will greatly improve it's odds of long term survival.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:19 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Westfalia 1600 oil breather opening Reply with quote

What I meant was the large 2" diameter hose that brings air from the area around the cylinders to the snorkel on the air cleaner. Probably being in Texas would make that far less critical, I live in the Yukon, so for me it is a bit more important!

Chris
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:20 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Westfalia 1600 oil breather opening Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
Welcome!
You don't absolutely need to have every single little gizmo and part in place to have a reliable bus, but they do work better when everything is there and set up correctly. Your engine has all the signs of a build by someone who doesn't know what they are doing, reads too many magazines and listens to fables passed down by others who really don't understand VW's either, it takes a hell of a big brain to outsmart an office tower full of meticulous German engineers, very few succeed.

If I was confronted with that cluster I'd do a compression test and confirm it's healthy enough to proceed, then I'd drop the engine and pull the shroud for a look to make sure the oil cooler has its foam seal, Hoover bit and exhaust ducting as well as confirm the tin has all the vanes required for proper cooling air flow and seals well. I'd also confirm the fan is the correct width and the fan hub and pulleys result in correct belt alignment, I'd locate a better air filter and an intake manifold with working heat risers and check the numbers on the jets in the carb too. All new fuel lines (SAE J30R9 or better) are critical as well.

Air cooled engines need fresh cool air to work properly, if you can see the road from anywhere above warm air will recirculate through those gaps and compromise the cooling, leaks in the shroud or tins doesn't help either. Put a light under the engine at night and look for light from inside the engine compartment.

It may not self destruct the next time you drive it as is, but a day or two's work and a few parts will greatly improve it's odds of long term survival.


It sure does have that look and I'm realizing that now.

I just went outside and did the light test. More light was coming in than staying out to say the least. Looking at it, it seems none of the tins are connected to each other and it is missing a part of the foam surround. There doesn't look like a single spot where it is a good seal.

I'll do a hopefully be able to do a compression test this weekend and go from there with your recommendations. Any idea on where the compression should be on each cylinder?

I don't plan on driving the bus any time soon, so it isn't a huge rush and I'd rather have it fairly correct first and improve those odds for long term survival.

Thanks for your help!
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:32 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Westfalia 1600 oil breather opening Reply with quote

You need to hang out with the local VOSA group. They will have parts, know how to work on your VW and be a good group for you to learn from.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:36 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Westfalia 1600 oil breather opening Reply with quote

Laughing If you can get a good compression test-- then oil pressure reading and ck the end play at the pulley- your on your way to getting your tin things sorted-

1 heater boxes and correct fan housing- with heater tubes
2 center intake manifolds replaced with one with clear flowing pre heat
3 muffler with pre heat stuff

We will stop there so as not to discourage you.

BUT- you will want to deal with fire prevention first- Lots of mods to help prevent fires- biggest killers of VW's going.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:40 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Westfalia 1600 oil breather opening Reply with quote

westysmb wrote:
I'll do a hopefully be able to do a compression test this weekend and go from there with your recommendations. Any idea on where the compression should be on each cylinder?

~100-120 PSI and roughly the same on all 4 cylinders.
Do the test with a fully charged battery, all 4 plugs out and the throttle held wide open, loosen the plugs and warm up the engine first as well. A valve adjustment before the test helps as well unless you want to see if a tight valve was the cause for a soft cylinder.
www.ratwell.com has a good description of a compression test, John Muir's "How to keep your Volkswagen alive" book also describes the test well (even though some other advice in that book is outdated).
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Westfalia 1600 oil breather opening Reply with quote

Classic VW Beetle Bugs How to Check Engine Compression Motor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od7bKNKPmuo
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