New to me 1965 Bug.. very good and of course has issues

[cherylbug66]

[Sharp64]

[jzjames]

[Fozzy]

[rockerarm]

[SamboSamba22]

FWIW Fozzy, the starter was replaced when I bought, thinking the guy said he purchased it from Autozone, Oreilys, something like that.
_________________
The Bus Barn Ltd. Co.

Oct. ’67 Double Cab (’68 Crew Cab)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44412.png]Click to view image[/URL]
March '69 Delivery (Panel Bus)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44414.png]Click to view image[/URL]

[rockerarm]

[Fozzy]

Not going to say yay or nay but to me this sure seems like a wiring issue.. someone threw a lot of components at this. I think the issue is between the components. But this remains a mystery until I get out into the heat and start eliminating problems. Something eventually has to give. I did buy some ten foot test leads.. Im very eager to get started.. but damn the heat makes this less that fun.
_________________
65 Sedan..
Adopted 07/15/17
this is the bug I've been looking for..

71 Tin Top Westy
Adopted Dec or so 2017

[rockerarm]

Hi. Hopefully you're correct here but working with a 50 year old car that could have some original components is a something to consider.
Remember, the positive batt cable circuit is very simple- batt to starter.
The neg batt cable circuit is nearly as simple. Starter to trans/mount ground to batt.
It is the starter solenoid circuit that we will see if it's the culprit. this circuit has many connections- battery-starter-volt reg-long wire-headlight switch-fuse box-ignition switch-2nd long wire-starter solenoid. If you find a voltage drop in this last circuit you can install your volt meter leads on the "-" to test the sub circuits and/or switches.

One last thing to ask, is the trans case and/or the starter painted where possibly the mounting surface could interfere with the return ground circuit? Just something to look at while there. Simple test is to hook up a batt jumper cable from starter housing/mounting stud back to batt negative terminal.
I'm pulling for you, brother.

[Fozzy]

I appreciate the tips and help and will start fresh again sometime tomorrow. Today I went to the store and bought some connectors and such and crawled under the car to reinstall the remote starter button the exact same way it was in there before just with totally secure and clean connectors. I went to start it and... nothing. The green and red lights come on and dim as I attempt to start it, but nothing. So.. I'm at ground zero and will start all over again tomorrow. I cleaned up all my tools and put everything away and will start fresh at zero.. OH. Also the battery voltage was at 5.96 so I hooked it up to a charger to charge until I start farting around with it.

I would like to ask what you guys would do. Should I dump the remote starter and start testing voltage and connections with out it connected to the system? I know at this point the ignition switch does work as we tested the switch on Thursday. Hook all the wires up as originally done and go from there?

As for paint on the transaxle, there is nothing at the ground areas at all and there is a new ground strap added. The starter appears to be new Bosch. I almost took a picture but was under the car with no camera/phone.. but it looks new/fresh.

I'm frustrated.. but its a combo of the car, the heat and being fired from my job last thursday.. When it rains.. it pours.
_________________
65 Sedan..
Adopted 07/15/17
this is the bug I've been looking for..

71 Tin Top Westy
Adopted Dec or so 2017

[Fozzy]

[Fozzy]

OK the GREEN wires are to the remote starter in the battery area. I tried to get a good shot of the starter it is indeed a BOSCH 6 volt and when it gets power it cranks great..
_________________
65 Sedan..
Adopted 07/15/17
this is the bug I've been looking for..

71 Tin Top Westy
Adopted Dec or so 2017

[rockerarm]

Wow, those are some numbers. Please verify the test leads are in the correct holes in the DVOM and on the "Vdc" scale.
Bill

[Fozzy]

[Fozzy]

[rockerarm]

Ok, your new results seem to show acceptable positive and negative battery cable circuits. Your starter solenoid circuit is with the "modified" push button switch, correct? If so, then reinstall wires so the actual ignition switch is flowing the current for the starter solenoid and see what voltage drop you get.

Electrical issues can be intermittent and not show up while testing for awhile. If this is the case here you may wish to delve into a wire terminal end cleaning procedure, which some folks here have talked about.

I probably couldn't correctly explain how the voltage drop works from a experts perspective but as I basically explain, the volt meter has the ability to measure the difference in voltage, no matter how small, do the math internally, and display the difference on the digital display.
Here are some links I have used to help myself:

http://www.fme-cat.com/Docs/1519.pdf

http://www.freeasestudyguides.com/voltage-drop-test.html

http://www.fluke.com/fluke/uses/comunidad/fluke-ne...sevoltdrop

Hope this helps my friend and stay hydrated.

[bluebus86]

note all voltage drop tests must be made under load (ie while cranking the starter in this case).


also note that the shop that wnts to remove the motor for generator replacement probably has no idea what they are doing. the generator can be removed without pulling the engine.

also note a frequent failure in generator can be the brushes wearing out, simply easy five minute replacement job with generator in place. if the brushes are worn dwon to below their holder, they are too worn, they should stick up above their holders.

for drop test hook up volt meter positive to the solinoid terminal that has wire from the key switch on it, negative meter wire to the starter body, then have the key switch operated, turn or attempt to turn the starter. read the voltage at this point. if low voltage, repaet test, this time move the negative meter wire to the batter ground terminal and repeat test. if voltage increases a good deal, then you know your ground from battery to starter is bad. (ie the two ground straps on car)

if voltage from first test was low, and second test (negative meter on battery) was fine, then you need to find out where the loss is, it will be someplace along the path from starter, to the key switch, and back to battery positive. you can measure across the key switch while cranking. place one test lead from meter on the input positve wire to the key switch, place other lead of meter on output of key switch, the output that goes to the starter solinoid. turn the key to crank the starter, and note the voltage drop across the key switch. if excessive, they the key switch is at fault.

a cleaned up switch, a new switch or an additional starter relay will solve that problem. dont shy away from adding an auxilary starter relay, it can solve a lot of problems. even when the cars where new, folks added a starter relay, many of my old vws and even newer vws have had starter relays added. the relay also saves on wear and tear on the keyswitch.


good luck
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022

[rockerarm]

[rockerarm]

Hi. Let's test a component here that could likely be at fault, the ignition switch.

Old school testing with a volt meter would test as follows:
1- volt meter positive on term 30 (input wire). Volt meter negative on any ground source. Ok, we have 6.xxx volts here.
2- volt meter positive on term 50 (output wire). crank car over and verify voltage to be 5.xxx to 6.xxx.
The key thing here is you don't know how much voltage was lost here because the battery will loose some voltage for the starter motor AND maybe we lost some voltage thru the old ign switch. THIS TEST IS MEANINGLESS.

New school and the gold standard is as follows:
1- voltmeter positive to term 30
2- voltmeter negative to term 50
Crank engine over and verify the VOLTAGE DROP across the ignition switch. The standard is not greater than .1v across and switch.
This test is not dependent on what the battery dropped to for the starter motor AND if one has a decent ground connection for the voltmeter.

Lets fix some old cars today

[Fozzy]