Dune Buggy won't fire up.

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Hello, my fellow dune-buggers! I have a 1964 dune buggy with a 1970 Type 1, dual relief, dual port, VW engine (B6-70-1600). I am new to the buggy scene, and what I have come to learn in my brief ownership time, is that these simple, yet durable engines, burn/leak oil, and can be finicky. While driving at 50-55 mph, the engine started to lose oil pressure, stumbled in 4th gear, so I shifted to 3rd for more power, until it eventually stalled and I pulled over. Good engine compression; apparently no overheating occurred. It will crank but won’t start (occasional pop). I smell gas, and have replaced the ignition coil, and it has good plugs and newer plug wires. Still, no starting. I am pretty limited mechanically-speaking, but am very eager and willing to learn! Any arm-chair diagnosis from you VW experts on what the malady could be; what I should be checking, in order from simple to complex? Thanks much!

[Dale M.]

First thing I would check is ignition... Are point opening and closing properly is timing set properly... Did distributor slip...... Second make sure engine is getting fuel... Is there fuel in fuel filter? ( you should actually get it out of the position and move it under body where fuel line comes out of transaxle mount horn).....Pull air cleaner and look down carb throat, when operating throttle, is it squirting fuel...

A quick ignition check is to put a test light on #1 terminal of coil, and other side of test light to ground...Crank over motor and see test light flashes on/off/on/off ... IF it doesn't you either have no power to coil, coil is bad, or there is problem in distributor...

It should not burn oil, its in need of new rings... And they do not leak oil, they mark their spot...

Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[glassbuggy]

What Dale said. One of the first things that I learned came from my grandfather to my dad and passed to me. You need three things for an engine to run. Gas, spark, compression. Since this occured while you were out driving we can elimnate compression for now. Fuel can be quickly checked with a shot of ether down the neck. If it fires if it runs for a few seconds then it may be a delivery issue. If nothing happens and it cranks away then start eyeballing ignition. I really love the compufire or the pertronix ignition modules. I've been running them since the 90's and it eliminates a lot of electrical gremlins by getting rid of the points and condenser. One other note is my 66 was having issues starting, it awaits restoration but has a craptastic singleport in it so I can move it about. Anyway the past few years is just didnt want to start but everything seemed to check out. It would crank slow and gag about a half turn in and repeat. I had swapped the starter and thought that eliminated it from the equation. This year I decided to choke the bat and buy a reconditioned autostick self suporting unit. It came right to life. As I started to suspect- issues are with the starter bushing ( I had cleaned all the cables and it became aparant there was a reason the starters I had put in that car turned slow) It just wouldn't get a good rotation to fire. This autostick starter ( Bosch reconditioned ) says "Here, let me spin that bitch"

[Wetstuff]

km, I didn't have any teachers or family wisdom available to help. I have spent a great many days attempting to 'teach myself' lots of stuff.

As my days become shorter, I find that 'local experts' are worth their weight in gold. I'd ask around of some older mechanics - if there is anyone nearby who has worked in air-cooled VW. Let them show you how they corrected your problem.

Jim
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Manx #2614

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Update: New points, new ignition coil, new distributor cap, new condenser, checked compression (air came out), checked fuel pump, cleaned carb jets, checked needle and seats. Plug #1 fouled (black); getting fuel; found a green wire from behind fan (not sure where it goes); verified plug wires; checked ignition switch wires and fuses; and lastly, has fuel in tank. It wants to start (especially when pumping gas pedal), but will not catch and fire up? Any more thoughts before taking it to a VW mechanic? Thanks again, fellow wrenchers!!

[rodjr]

[Bluggy]

The first thing you do when you see the oil pressure drop while running high RPMs is to pull over immediately, in neutral if possible.

You have not been back on the forums since for a while.. I am hoping its not a catastrophic failure.

Thats a sweet looking Buggy..

Cheers.

[Sharp64]

Have you set the points gap and timed it?
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1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine

[Bluggy]

Dale asked him about that already, he did say he bought new cap, points etc..basically going though the process of elimination by swapping in new parts.

He said he is mechanically limited, its better for him to take it to a reputable mechanic than fiddle with it, he can always learn.

He was smelling gas too which is not a good sign both safety wise and getting it to start...could be that he is not getting spark and flooding it.

[Sharp64]

[Bluggy]

Exactly Sharp, he might have spent more money swapping in new parts than what it would have cost to have it looked at. Swapping parts in and keeping fingers crossed is the not the way it should be done.

There are so many tutorials on the net and with such a simple engine, one can learn easily.

The guys here would have helped him get to the bottom of it, hope he comes back soon.

Cheers.

[Sharp64]

He also mentioned replacing parts but didn't mention correctly setting points gap, timing or anything else, thus my comment. Too little info and when posters don't come back to respond it's a bit pointless at times.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine

[Bluggy]

Sharp..be sharp and quit double posting

There is so much info here and also on a blog called Dave and Bob.

Everyone here jumps in to help so easily, TS its one of the best forums I have been on...great guys here.

BTW I was on Craig List looking for engines in your area and the rest of Florida, not too much available now.

Cheers.

[Bluggy]

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Took it to vw mechanic.....engine rebuild, new clutch, carb, brakes, tranny re-seal....wallet is $3400 lighter....but now purrs like a kitten....the old adage "it ain't the parts, it's the labor", rings especially true for these bug experts....will read "How to keep VW alive" to maintain what I now have.

[YDBD]

doesn't seem like a bad price for:

engine rebuild, new clutch, carb, brakes, tranny re-seal
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'56 pan Dune Buggy since '69
don't live in the past...but when I did:
'67 bug
'64 baja
'60 dune buggy
'73 Personenkraftwagen Type 182 "Thing"

[Sharp64]

Holy crap. Did the mechanic say exactly what was wrong with it that it needed a rebuild?
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine

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No compression in 3 of four cylinders. Heads, pistons, bearings all bad; worn out altogether.

[Bluggy]

Whats done is done, but really wished you stuck around for advice, even to get a good VW tech close by.

I hope you were not taken for a ride but from what you described initially, it sounded serious after oil pressure dropped while at that speed.

Lots of the guys here are well versed, friendly and helpful. I have been working on cars since i was 11 or so but learning about this engine.

There is a lot you can research here, just go to the search field...look at my recent thread on oil. Since it was rebuilt, you will want to change the oil sooner the first time.

Three common issues which causes engine fires..

1. The inlet nipple to the carb comes loose, check up on that. I will drill and tap mine to take a threaded barb fitting.

2: Using a plastic fuel filter, I installed a new one last week to start the car at the PO's place, and already its bending at the outlet

3: The location of the filter, regardless if its metal or plastic, I will have it placed ahead of the engine.

The buggy is for fun and though they can go fast, i would still treat it as an old car. To be safe, keep the revs around 4K, dont need to drag the gears at high RPMs.

You got a beautiful toy, have fun and be safe.

Cheers.