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tencentlife Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006 Posts: 10067 Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:22 am Post subject: |
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I don't know about the Porsche guys but the case inserts we used since 30 years ago weren't actually Timeserts, they were a standard knurled steel sleeve insert. Round about that time, early 80's, was when Timesert showed up on our scene, and we quickly invested in all the standard sizes for the various repairs that woud come up. But we went on using the same heavy-duty steel sleeves for head studs that we had always used; they were much cheaper than Timeserts and considerably thicker.
But I'm still amazed anyone uses helicoils anymore. They were always a poor fix and they haven't gotten any better. _________________ Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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AZWesty Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2008 Posts: 32 Location: Flagstaff, Arizona
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Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:12 am Post subject: |
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Pascal, this pic you posted says it all. Since the timesert is recessed a bit I can definitely see how it could leak if the washer isn't crushed well.
[/quote] |
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jdbs3 Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2004 Posts: 96
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Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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RE: Definitely use the shorter insert, not only to keep from building a dam around the drain hole but more importantly because it's those last two threads that flare to secure the insert. The longer insert leaves one thread exposed above the sump floor.
tencentlife,
If my mechanic does not have the timesert, I will rent it from aircooled.net.
What is the part number for the shorter insert? |
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tencentlife Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006 Posts: 10067 Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm, funny you ask today, since I just got the drain plug kit last week, so I have the invoice right here.
The kit is #1415 (M14 x 1.5 thread).
You want to use the 9.4mm long insert, which is #14153.
I found this stuff at Pendergrass Tool Specialist, Jim Pendergrass, who was one of the only places who listed the drain plug size (everyone has 14 x 1.25, which is for spark plugs, but very few show the 1.5 kit) I ordered over the phone, very nice to deal with and had the best price I found for the kit as well, at $107.91. I asked fror quick shipping and he had it out the door that same day. Highly recommended dealer.
http://www.pendergrasstool.com/kits/metric_kits.htm
I'm going to do this fix on every wbx case whether it needs it or not, because the steel insert is so much more durable than the aluminum threads. About every third case I see definitely needs the repair, and the others are only one overtightened drainplug from needing it, too.
I already got the kits for M6 x 1.0 so I can add inserts to all the 1.9 thermostat housings for the cover bolts, and the M8 x 1.25 just because that's the most common fastener and the need to repair them comes up often enough. Now with the drainplug kit, I've got the major bases covered. _________________ Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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jdbs3 Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2004 Posts: 96
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Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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That was a quick reply.
I have a 1990 vanagon GL. When I went on aircooled.net, it was not clear this would work for a water cooled van. Does the kit you listed works for the water cooled?
Since this is a one shot for me, I will rent the M14 x 1.5 thread kit from aircooled.net if I find my mechanic does not have it.
And
RE: You want to use the 9.4mm long insert, which is #14153.
But earlier you replied to someone else
RE: Definitely use the shorter insert
Is the 9.4mm the shorter insert you referred to earlier in this thread? It looks like it is after going to the web site you note. BUT just want to double check. |
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tencentlife Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006 Posts: 10067 Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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If it will work on an aircooled it'll work on a watercooled. I'm assuming the Type4 drainplug is the same thread size. If so, a hole's a hole. I've already used it a few times on wbx cases and it works, very well, thank you.
There is one shorter length insert in this size, 6.6mm (#14151). When I made that comment I might not have been aware of all the sizes. You could use that one, but having as many threads as you can fit is always best. The 9.4mm is just right for the thickness of the wbx sump. _________________ Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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jdbs3 Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2004 Posts: 96
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Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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RE: 9.4mm long insert, which is #14153.
Is this a carbon steel or stainless steel insert? And does it matter for my need, i.e. oil drain plug fix? |
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tencentlife Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006 Posts: 10067 Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:43 am Post subject: |
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Y'know the answers to these questions are right there on the link I provided. There are no SS inserts available in 14 x 1.5. There would be no benefit of the corrosion-resistance of SS for a drainplug anyway (that is the only benefit of SS, it is not stronger); the threads are always immersed in oil. _________________ Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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jdbs3 Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2004 Posts: 96
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:59 am Post subject: |
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Thanks!
The new insert goes in today |
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bjrogers86auto Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2009 Posts: 1375 Location: Halifax, N.S.
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Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:24 am Post subject: |
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I just installed a self tapping drain plug thingy yesterday after my plug stipped and leaked.
Not sure Timeserts are available locally in Canada or here on the East Coast but I will look into it for the next oil change.
Thanks for sharing the info guys!
Brain. |
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Pascal Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2006 Posts: 825 Location: Fredericton, NB, Canada
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Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:48 am Post subject: |
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jdbs3 wrote: |
You want to use the 9.4mm long insert, which is #14153.
Is the 9.4mm the shorter insert you referred to earlier in this thread? It looks like it is after going to the web site you note. BUT just want to double check. |
The insert in the picture I posted in this thread is 9.4mm long. It's the one that came with the aircoole.net kit. If I were to this again I would try to reduce the depth of the step that the time sert tool does. _________________ '84 Westy - 2.2wbx, GT Torque-Biasing Differential
'91 EA Cabby |
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stormforge Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2009 Posts: 355 Location: Adirondacks NY
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Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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I've just done 2 engines with timeserts (using the tools and inserts from aircooled.net) and I'm very pleased with the results. This is a repair that should be a solid, permanent fix.
There is a big of a "bug" I think in the timesert installation process. The tool which flares the insert for a tight fit is the same one which is used to install the insert into the newly tapped hole you've made. The danger here is that if the insert doesn't screw smoothly into the new hole (for example if it binds on a little chip from the tapping) then you risk flaring the insert before it is fully seated in into the shoulder recess you've cut.
My approach was to thread a 14x1.5 nut onto the insert tool to hold the insert in place on the tool while it is completely seated into the new hole. Then take the nut off and run the tool through the insert to flare the threads and lock it in.
As others have said, the depth of the shoulder cut will be too deep if you cut to the full depth of that tool.
Cheers,
-Bill
'89 Syncro |
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VANAGON4us2 Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2010 Posts: 64 Location: Lynn Haven, FL
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Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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I also rented the tool from aircooled.net. Everything worked great. This is gonna make oil changes alot less apprehensive...
i would never use a heli-coil there....But i am guilty of using alot of them on my exhaust manifold on my Starion ( ..yikes!
eric _________________ 1987 Vanagon GL Auto
1987 Mitsubishi Starion
Springfield 1911
Fender Stratocaster |
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VeeDubDaySpa Samba Member
Joined: February 29, 2008 Posts: 368 Location: Bend, OR
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Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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Just tried the helicoil method... $100+ later, it was a disaster. Wish I saw this thread before reading GWs article.
Now waiting on the timesert kit to arrive _________________ North American Hightop Installer/Distributor
Current stock (5)
Hot Water Systems
_______________________________________
90 Syncro NAHT Vanagon RHINO
86 "Syncro" Van DIAMOND
87 Syncro Hightop WestyCamper ROCKY (for sale soon)
79 bay window OLIVER |
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n2wheelies Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2006 Posts: 65 Location: newport beach, ca
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Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: Timesert in drain plug |
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I have a good solution for crooked timeserts. It has taken me a year of leaks to address my very crookedly installed timesert that came with my 269K mile 87 westfalia. It hasnt leaked a drop over three oil changes, 9K miles which I have logged in the last 4 months. Some in 100+F extended trips. Not sure how many people I could get interested or how to market this. Any suggestions are appreciated. _________________ '87 Vanagon Weekender 'ELNINYO'
past vw's...
'09 EOS 'petal'
'78 scirocco
'66 T2 panel dead tour vehicle, 'mr bus'
'67 13 window
'95 eurocamper 'charlie' (phish tour vehicle)
'03 Mk4 TDI 'steve'
'04 W8 Phaeton 'david' |
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Butcher Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2015 Posts: 1285 Location: Right Here
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Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:41 am Post subject: Re: Timesert in drain plug |
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I really do not think there is a market for it. Most inserts are installed by professionals and they install them straight. The market would be for the DIY'ers and I just do not think there are many that have that issue. |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17009 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:56 am Post subject: Re: Timesert in drain plug |
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Are you asking if you could sell your solution? If you have a tool you fabricated that would remove the crooked insert and then a tool to straighten the crooked threads, and then a tool to install the new timesert, I am sure someone would buy one.
Or you could rent it with a deposit.
If you have a method only, the idea would be to share it with the community for good vanagon karma. _________________ ☮️ |
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Butcher Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2015 Posts: 1285 Location: Right Here
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Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:28 pm Post subject: Re: Timesert in drain plug |
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If it is that special, I would patent it first, then tell the world. |
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n2wheelies Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2006 Posts: 65 Location: newport beach, ca
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: Timesert in drain plug |
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its pretty hard to correct a crooked timesert and this stops the leak. Its just a combination of an aerospace grade outer oring that fits over the copper washer - appropriate for high temps and oil, with a lot of crush potential; a carefully selected drain plug; ill post up photos on my next oil change and be sure to show how asymmetrically my copper washer crushes due to the bad timesert.
i appreciate the comments. not going to get rich on this and but I could save some others a ton of grief. im still distributing free o rings for the cruise control pedal switches so Ive got a bit of westy karma flowing on the samba
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8531604#8531604 _________________ '87 Vanagon Weekender 'ELNINYO'
past vw's...
'09 EOS 'petal'
'78 scirocco
'66 T2 panel dead tour vehicle, 'mr bus'
'67 13 window
'95 eurocamper 'charlie' (phish tour vehicle)
'03 Mk4 TDI 'steve'
'04 W8 Phaeton 'david' |
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jberger Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003 Posts: 2476
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Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:04 am Post subject: Re: Timesert in drain plug |
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Why not just use a piloted end mill and face the case to match the angle of the time-sert? It can't be off that much.
J |
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