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Timesert in drain plug
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know about the Porsche guys but the case inserts we used since 30 years ago weren't actually Timeserts, they were a standard knurled steel sleeve insert. Round about that time, early 80's, was when Timesert showed up on our scene, and we quickly invested in all the standard sizes for the various repairs that woud come up. But we went on using the same heavy-duty steel sleeves for head studs that we had always used; they were much cheaper than Timeserts and considerably thicker.

But I'm still amazed anyone uses helicoils anymore. They were always a poor fix and they haven't gotten any better.
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AZWesty
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pascal, this pic you posted says it all. Since the timesert is recessed a bit I can definitely see how it could leak if the washer isn't crushed well.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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jdbs3
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RE: Definitely use the shorter insert, not only to keep from building a dam around the drain hole but more importantly because it's those last two threads that flare to secure the insert. The longer insert leaves one thread exposed above the sump floor.

tencentlife,

If my mechanic does not have the timesert, I will rent it from aircooled.net.

What is the part number for the shorter insert?
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, funny you ask today, since I just got the drain plug kit last week, so I have the invoice right here.

The kit is #1415 (M14 x 1.5 thread).

You want to use the 9.4mm long insert, which is #14153.

I found this stuff at Pendergrass Tool Specialist, Jim Pendergrass, who was one of the only places who listed the drain plug size (everyone has 14 x 1.25, which is for spark plugs, but very few show the 1.5 kit) I ordered over the phone, very nice to deal with and had the best price I found for the kit as well, at $107.91. I asked fror quick shipping and he had it out the door that same day. Highly recommended dealer.

http://www.pendergrasstool.com/kits/metric_kits.htm


I'm going to do this fix on every wbx case whether it needs it or not, because the steel insert is so much more durable than the aluminum threads. About every third case I see definitely needs the repair, and the others are only one overtightened drainplug from needing it, too.

I already got the kits for M6 x 1.0 so I can add inserts to all the 1.9 thermostat housings for the cover bolts, and the M8 x 1.25 just because that's the most common fastener and the need to repair them comes up often enough. Now with the drainplug kit, I've got the major bases covered.
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jdbs3
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was a quick reply.

I have a 1990 vanagon GL. When I went on aircooled.net, it was not clear this would work for a water cooled van. Does the kit you listed works for the water cooled?

Since this is a one shot for me, I will rent the M14 x 1.5 thread kit from aircooled.net if I find my mechanic does not have it.

And

RE: You want to use the 9.4mm long insert, which is #14153.

But earlier you replied to someone else

RE: Definitely use the shorter insert

Is the 9.4mm the shorter insert you referred to earlier in this thread? It looks like it is after going to the web site you note. BUT just want to double check.
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it will work on an aircooled it'll work on a watercooled. I'm assuming the Type4 drainplug is the same thread size. If so, a hole's a hole. I've already used it a few times on wbx cases and it works, very well, thank you.

There is one shorter length insert in this size, 6.6mm (#14151). When I made that comment I might not have been aware of all the sizes. You could use that one, but having as many threads as you can fit is always best. The 9.4mm is just right for the thickness of the wbx sump.
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jdbs3
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RE: 9.4mm long insert, which is #14153.

Is this a carbon steel or stainless steel insert? And does it matter for my need, i.e. oil drain plug fix?
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Y'know the answers to these questions are right there on the link I provided. There are no SS inserts available in 14 x 1.5. There would be no benefit of the corrosion-resistance of SS for a drainplug anyway (that is the only benefit of SS, it is not stronger); the threads are always immersed in oil.
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jdbs3
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks!

The new insert goes in today
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bjrogers86auto
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just installed a self tapping drain plug thingy yesterday after my plug stipped and leaked.

Not sure Timeserts are available locally in Canada or here on the East Coast but I will look into it for the next oil change.

Thanks for sharing the info guys!
Brain.
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Pascal
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jdbs3 wrote:
You want to use the 9.4mm long insert, which is #14153.
Is the 9.4mm the shorter insert you referred to earlier in this thread? It looks like it is after going to the web site you note. BUT just want to double check.


The insert in the picture I posted in this thread is 9.4mm long. It's the one that came with the aircoole.net kit. If I were to this again I would try to reduce the depth of the step that the time sert tool does.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just done 2 engines with timeserts (using the tools and inserts from aircooled.net) and I'm very pleased with the results. This is a repair that should be a solid, permanent fix.

There is a big of a "bug" I think in the timesert installation process. The tool which flares the insert for a tight fit is the same one which is used to install the insert into the newly tapped hole you've made. The danger here is that if the insert doesn't screw smoothly into the new hole (for example if it binds on a little chip from the tapping) then you risk flaring the insert before it is fully seated in into the shoulder recess you've cut.

My approach was to thread a 14x1.5 nut onto the insert tool to hold the insert in place on the tool while it is completely seated into the new hole. Then take the nut off and run the tool through the insert to flare the threads and lock it in.

As others have said, the depth of the shoulder cut will be too deep if you cut to the full depth of that tool.

Cheers,
-Bill
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VANAGON4us2
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also rented the tool from aircooled.net. Everything worked great. This is gonna make oil changes alot less apprehensive...

i would never use a heli-coil there....But i am guilty of using alot of them on my exhaust manifold on my Starion (Cool ..yikes!

eric
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just tried the helicoil method... $100+ later, it was a disaster. Wish I saw this thread before reading GWs article.

Now waiting on the timesert kit to arrive Very Happy
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n2wheelies
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Timesert in drain plug Reply with quote

I have a good solution for crooked timeserts. It has taken me a year of leaks to address my very crookedly installed timesert that came with my 269K mile 87 westfalia. It hasnt leaked a drop over three oil changes, 9K miles which I have logged in the last 4 months. Some in 100+F extended trips. Not sure how many people I could get interested or how to market this. Any suggestions are appreciated.
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Butcher
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:41 am    Post subject: Re: Timesert in drain plug Reply with quote

I really do not think there is a market for it. Most inserts are installed by professionals and they install them straight. The market would be for the DIY'ers and I just do not think there are many that have that issue.
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:56 am    Post subject: Re: Timesert in drain plug Reply with quote

Are you asking if you could sell your solution? If you have a tool you fabricated that would remove the crooked insert and then a tool to straighten the crooked threads, and then a tool to install the new timesert, I am sure someone would buy one.

Or you could rent it with a deposit.

If you have a method only, the idea would be to share it with the community for good vanagon karma.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Timesert in drain plug Reply with quote

If it is that special, I would patent it first, then tell the world.
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n2wheelies
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Timesert in drain plug Reply with quote

its pretty hard to correct a crooked timesert and this stops the leak. Its just a combination of an aerospace grade outer oring that fits over the copper washer - appropriate for high temps and oil, with a lot of crush potential; a carefully selected drain plug; ill post up photos on my next oil change and be sure to show how asymmetrically my copper washer crushes due to the bad timesert.

i appreciate the comments. not going to get rich on this and but I could save some others a ton of grief. im still distributing free o rings for the cruise control pedal switches so Ive got a bit of westy karma flowing on the samba Smile

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8531604#8531604
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jberger
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:04 am    Post subject: Re: Timesert in drain plug Reply with quote

Why not just use a piloted end mill and face the case to match the angle of the time-sert? It can't be off that much.

J
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