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GhiaInSC Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2015 Posts: 20 Location: South Carolina
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Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:31 pm Post subject: metal in oil.....am I screwed? |
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I changed the oil in my 1972 Karmann Ghia for the first time (I've had it for about 2 years and drive it about 600 miles a year). It had a decent amount of sludge in the oil screen and had what felt like some metal shavings (I had latex gloves on). Am I completely screwed here?
If so, should I go ahead and rebuild the engine or just wait for it to crap out? It doesn't burn oil, no smoke or any other indicators that the engine needs work. |
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olspeed Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2008 Posts: 489 Location: In the shadow of Denali, I still don't give a damn how they do it outside
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Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: metal in oil.....am I screwed? |
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Have you disposed of the oil yet? If not get ahold of a magnet and see if you can find metal in the oil, and if it was mine I would at least drain it down enough to put in a qt of ATF and run it for a few minutes that then change it again... don't run it long, just enough to warm the engine and then change it and run the magnet through it an see what you have.
If the engine runs good with no smoke and the oil changes come out clean I would run it, also remember oil is cheap insurance even if you only drive 600 miles a year moisture will still collect in the case and contaminate the oil. _________________ 66- Ghia
76-Beetle |
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rockerarm Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2009 Posts: 3552 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:52 pm Post subject: Re: metal in oil.....am I screwed? |
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Hi. Being the minimal amount of miles you drive you might wish to consider having an oil sample done and see what might be happening inside. You can find info at www.bobistheoilguy.com where they speak about oil analysis and other topics.
If you repeatedly find this in the oil it is inevitable that a rebuild is in order for you.
If the engine's compression is normal you may wish to install a filter, either a by-pass or full flow to capture anything in the oil. This filter thing sounds drastic but if you shop around can be bought and installed for not much money.
Hope this helps, Bill |
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olspeed Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2008 Posts: 489 Location: In the shadow of Denali, I still don't give a damn how they do it outside
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Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:37 am Post subject: Re: metal in oil.....am I screwed? |
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The oil sample thing is a good idea as it is something that most industrial fleets use to monitor the engines, transmissions and hydraulic systems of their vehicles but you must do it on a schedule and stick to it or you will have no idea what is going on. If the engine has had recent work done to it or if it has sat for a long time and not pre-lubed before start up there will be more metals and other contaminates in it than during normal operation.
Basically if you only change your oil every two years it will be useless because you've allowed the oil to degrade and the contaminates from unburnt fuel get into the oil and you will always get high readings. _________________ 66- Ghia
76-Beetle |
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swavananda Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2009 Posts: 889 Location: Can o' Scruz
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Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: metal in oil.....am I screwed? |
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olspeed wrote: |
Have you disposed of the oil yet? If not get ahold of a magnet and see if you can find metal in the oil, and if it was mine I would at least drain it down enough to put in a qt of ATF and run it for a few minutes that then change it again... don't run it long, just enough to warm the engine and then change it and run the magnet through it an see what you have.
If the engine runs good with no smoke and the oil changes come out clean I would run it, also remember oil is cheap insurance even if you only drive 600 miles a year moisture will still collect in the case and contaminate the oil. |
I'm Curious about adding ATF to the mix. I've never heard of that one .whats the reasoning behind that ? Thanks |
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swavananda Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2009 Posts: 889 Location: Can o' Scruz
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Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: metal in oil.....am I screwed? |
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If my car sits for more than a month or two, I like to squirt some oil it the the spark plug holes then crank it to the the oil light goes out. Then Reinsert plugs and the fire it up. Just one of things, like never starting the car cold with the clutch in...... |
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olspeed Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2008 Posts: 489 Location: In the shadow of Denali, I still don't give a damn how they do it outside
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Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: metal in oil.....am I screwed? |
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ATF is a very high detergent oil and will clean the engine internally. It does thin the viscosity of your normal engine oil though so you only want to run it until the engine is warm to get all the sludge mixed in (it will also hold it in suspension)and dump it out that way you have about as clean of a engine as you can get to start off with.
I learned this from my dad who was a certified CAT, Detroit Diesel and Cummins mechanic from the early 60's through 2000 before he passed. He showed me this for my old 64 Ford Galaxie 500XL, the engine(390) would from time to time start ticking as a lifter would stick, a quick dump of enough oil to add a quart of ATF and the problem was gone. _________________ 66- Ghia
76-Beetle |
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swavananda Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2009 Posts: 889 Location: Can o' Scruz
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Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: metal in oil.....am I screwed? |
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olspeed wrote: |
ATF is a very high detergent oil and will clean the engine internally. It does thin the viscosity of your normal engine oil though so you only want to run it until the engine is warm to get all the sludge mixed in (it will also hold it in suspension)and dump it out that way you have about as clean of a engine as you can get to start off with.
I learned this from my dad who was a certified CAT, Detroit Diesel and Cummins mechanic from the early 60's through 2000 before he passed. He showed me this for my old 64 Ford Galaxie 500XL, the engine(390) would from time to time start ticking as a lifter would stick, a quick dump of enough oil to add a quart of ATF and the problem was gone. |
Cool. I though there probably Was an old school style reasoning behind that. Always glad to glean something new. Cheers |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24759 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: metal in oil.....am I screwed? |
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Really should change oil every 3,000 miles or 6 months, whichever happens first. Otherwise all the crud is constantly going thru the bearings and the oil turn acidic from all the raw fuel in it.
CB Maxi 2 oil filter pump is a good way to help protect your engine bearing from at least metal bits in the oil. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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Mellow Yellow 74 Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2014 Posts: 1615 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:18 am Post subject: Re: metal in oil.....am I screwed? |
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No your not screwed and no you shouldn't rebuild the engine - just drive it and enjoy it and worry about it when there is some indication of a problem. _________________ 1962 Karmann Ghia
1974 Deluxe Microbus
1985 Caravelle (Vanagon) |
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digdug18 Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2009 Posts: 9 Location: Ottsville, PA
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Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: metal in oil.....am I screwed? |
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Mellow Yellow 74 wrote: |
No your not screwed and no you shouldn't rebuild the engine - just drive it and enjoy it and worry about it when there is some indication of a problem. |
I agree completely, so long as you do not notice any issues, oil light staying on, loss of power, excess smoking, loss of compression.
Engines always wear, and that wear over time produces fine metal particles in ANY engine, or moving part. Oil slows the wear, but will never stop it altogether. So as long as it's fine metal, then you're fine, but if its large chunks, 1/16" to 1/8" or bigger, then you might have an issue. |
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jwold Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2008 Posts: 2088 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:35 pm Post subject: Re: metal in oil.....am I screwed? |
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I've taken to putting one of those really strong neodymium magnets by the oil screen in my bug to catch stray metals & shavings if any. |
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GhiaInSC Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2015 Posts: 20 Location: South Carolina
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:58 am Post subject: Re: metal in oil.....am I screwed? |
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I originally thought there were large metal particles in the oil, but upon further inspection what is there is very fine. Thank you for the advice everyone! |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24759 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:02 am Post subject: Re: metal in oil.....am I screwed? |
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GhiaInSC wrote: |
I originally thought there were large metal particles in the oil, but upon further inspection what is there is very fine. Thank you for the advice everyone! |
Good! Do keep in mind that while steel shavings are present in oil of any running ACVW engine. Dirt gets into these engines also, and that over time can cause wear. So you need to still change oil on the regular VW schedule or all in a real oil filter. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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jwold Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2008 Posts: 2088 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: metal in oil.....am I screwed? |
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Maybe pieces of a fuel pump stand? Those bits can break off and end up in the oil. |
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KGCoupe Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2005 Posts: 3580 Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
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Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:29 am Post subject: Re: metal in oil.....am I screwed? |
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I have a 2005 Audi A4 Quattro with the 2.0 TFSI 4 cylinder engine, and those engines are very prone to low oil pressure issues due to sludge build-up if the engine oil has not been changed regularly and frequently.
There a screen covering the oil pick-up tube which can become blocked with sludge.
The correct solution is to drop the oil pan and replace the screen, however that job is complicated by the fact that a suspension component passes across the center of the oil pan.
Because you must remove that suspension piece you must also first support the engine, and all of this adds up to a book rate of 6 or 7 hours to complete the whole job.
When my Audi began having low oil pressure issues a little over a year ago, an experienced mechanic friend suggested that I try using the ATF in the engine oil trick.
I did some online research first, and the general concensus was that it was an outdated trick that shouldn't be tried in a modern engine.
I trusted my friend and tried it anyway, using 1 quart of Castrol ATF specially formulated for transmissions with higher milage transmissions (which has extra detergents and seal conditioners) mixed in with 4 quarts of fresh 0W40 engine oil.
I actually ran the car with this mixture for around 600 miles, and was very pleasantly surprised that it did in fact clear out the sludge.
... and even more pleasantly surprised that there have been no indications since then that any other damage to the engine was caused by doing this.
( yet, anyway ). |
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