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Mr.Oldskool
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Joined: November 04, 2012
Posts: 24
Location: Belgium
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 Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:03 pm Post subject: 67 turn signal problem |
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hello, I hope you guys can help me. I have a '67 US spec ghia with a WW 9-prong turn signal/emergancy flasher relay.
Everything worked fine until it just stopped.. 
I found the troubleshooting topic on http://www.type2.com/library/electris/vw-9prong.html where it says I should try to touch the 3O terminal with the VL and VR wire, but when I do this with the VL wire the fuse brakes, if I do this with the VR nothing happens, nothing at al.
I think (hope) there is a logical explenation for this, just can't seem to be finding it atm..
Should I be looking for a flaw in the wiring? is there an other way to check if the relay is still OK (I blew the first one up, my bad..)
I'v tried the search button, but didn't find a thread with the same problem.
thanks!
glauco |
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xzener
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Joined: June 03, 2006
Posts: 1777
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:31 pm Post subject: Re: 67 turn signal problem |
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If everything worked and all the sudden stopped, perhaps the relay went bad. Are the hazard lights working? There should be two separate relays, one for hazards (which wasn't working on my 68 ) and one for turn signals. My turn signals worked before I yanked out my harness.
Edit: Actually, after reading the guide you posted, looks like it's all one unit. Maybe that's what was wrong with my hazards.
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My 70 beetle was totaled Now to build the Ghia I always wanted. Rest in peace Ruby, I will miss you. Hello <insert Ghia name here>! |
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sputnick60
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Joined: July 22, 2007
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xzener
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Joined: June 03, 2006
Posts: 1777
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: 67 turn signal problem |
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Don't understand why it's so expensive, but I'm in the market for one too. Not sure I trust buying used.
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My 70 beetle was totaled Now to build the Ghia I always wanted. Rest in peace Ruby, I will miss you. Hello <insert Ghia name here>! |
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Mr. Oldskool
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Joined: June 27, 2008
Posts: 10
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:33 pm Post subject: Re: 67 turn signal problem |
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Flasher doesn't work as wel. Itis just lights up when I put it on.
I have a relay like that.
The second one I bought in a year.
Not sure if the problem is in my relay, that's chat Om hoping to find out..
Thanks
Glauco |
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Mr. Oldskool
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Joined: June 27, 2008
Posts: 10
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:34 pm Post subject: Re: 67 turn signal problem |
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| xzener wrote: |
If everything worked and all the sudden stopped, perhaps the relay went bad. Are the hazard lights working? There should be two separate relays, one for hazards (which wasn't working on my 68 ) and one for turn signals. My turn signals worked before I yanked out my harness.
Edit: Actually, after reading the guide you posted, looks like it's all one unit. Maybe that's what was wrong with my hazards. |
It is indeed one unit.. |
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sputnick60
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Joined: July 22, 2007
Posts: 3916
Location: In Molinya Orbit
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:06 pm Post subject: Re: 67 turn signal problem |
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| xzener wrote: |
| Don't understand why it's so expensive, but I'm in the market for one too. Not sure I trust buying used. |
If you look at the article linked in the earlier post, in Method 2 the author describes a setup achieving the same functions. Figure 3 shows five relays are required. If you happened to have such collection of relays in some box of bits along with the skills to wire it all so it actually works, then this is the obvious way to go.
If you had to buy all that stuff I suspect the cost would get a good way towards Wolfsburg West's asking price. Of course WW would like to make a return on developing a product that is identical to the SWF original (that is otherwise unavailable new or in a doubtful used state ) and provide a warranty after purchase.
So I suppose that's part of what makes this unique relay set so expensive. That and a perception of value.
Nicholas
(In support of vw specialist suppliers)
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Mr.Oldskool
Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2012
Posts: 24
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:34 am Post subject: Re: 67 turn signal problem |
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| sputnick60 wrote: |
| xzener wrote: |
| Don't understand why it's so expensive, but I'm in the market for one too. Not sure I trust buying used. |
If you look at the article linked in the earlier post, in Method 2 the author describes a setup achieving the same functions. Figure 3 shows five relays are required. If you happened to have such collection of relays in some box of bits along with the skills to wire it all so it actually works, then this is the obvious way to go.
If you had to buy all that stuff I suspect the cost would get a good way towards Wolfsburg West's asking price. Of course WW would like to make a return on developing a product that is identical to the SWF original (that is otherwise unavailable new or in a doubtful used state ) and provide a warranty after purchase.
So I suppose that's part of what makes this unique relay set so expensive. That and a perception of value.
Nicholas
(In support of vw specialist suppliers) |
I have no problem paying the 60 dollars for the relay, none at all.
I just want to make sure it's that what I need, because I already broke one, so the third hurts me a little more than the first 2  |
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sjbartnik
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Joined: September 01, 2011
Posts: 5994
Location: Brooklyn
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:46 am Post subject: Re: 67 turn signal problem |
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It would seem you have a short in the wiring somewhere and shorts can damage the relay.
You said when you connect 30 to terminal VL, you blow the fuse.
This would indicate a dead short to ground somewhere in the wiring between VL and the left side turn signal bulbs.
You should be able to track this down pretty easily with a meter. My gut feeling is that the short is likely to reside in the turn signal switch since it's the only thing with moving parts but you should also check for a pinched or loose wire in the VL circuit.
the VL wire (black/white) goes from VL terminal to a 3-way connector where it ties in the front and rear turn signal bulbs. Out the other end of this connector is a single black/white wire up to the turn signal switch.
You could unplug the turn signal switch wire from this connector, then try again touching 30 to the VL terminal. This should make the left side turn signal bulbs, front and rear, light up solid. If that works with the turn signal switch wire disconnected but blows the fuse when you connect the turn signal switch wire, then it would seem you have a short in the turn signal switch or the wire itself.
When you touch 30 to the VR terminal, the front and rear turn signal lights on the right side should light up solid (not flashing). If they do not, you have a wiring fault, as this functionality is bypassing the relay entirely and connecting battery power directly to the light bulbs.
So it sounds to me like you have a couple wiring faults to chase down before assuming the relay is faulty.
EDIT: if you want to REALLY isolate the relay to make sure there isn't some kind of internal short that's blowing the fuse, simply pull the VL wire off the relay, then connect 30 to the VL wire.
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Mr. Oldskool
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Joined: June 27, 2008
Posts: 10
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:14 am Post subject: Re: 67 turn signal problem |
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| sjbartnik wrote: |
It would seem you have a short in the wiring somewhere and shorts can damage the relay.
You said when you connect 30 to terminal VL, you blow the fuse.
This would indicate a dead short to ground somewhere in the wiring between VL and the left side turn signal bulbs.
You should be able to track this down pretty easily with a meter. My gut feeling is that the short is likely to reside in the turn signal switch since it's the only thing with moving parts but you should also check for a pinched or loose wire in the VL circuit.
the VL wire (black/white) goes from VL terminal to a 3-way connector where it ties in the front and rear turn signal bulbs. Out the other end of this connector is a single black/white wire up to the turn signal switch.
You could unplug the turn signal switch wire from this connector, then try again touching 30 to the VL terminal. This should make the left side turn signal bulbs, front and rear, light up solid. If that works with the turn signal switch wire disconnected but blows the fuse when you connect the turn signal switch wire, then it would seem you have a short in the turn signal switch or the wire itself.
When you touch 30 to the VR terminal, the front and rear turn signal lights on the right side should light up solid (not flashing). If they do not, you have a wiring fault, as this functionality is bypassing the relay entirely and connecting battery power directly to the light bulbs.
So it sounds to me like you have a couple wiring faults to chase down before assuming the relay is faulty.
EDIT: if you want to REALLY isolate the relay to make sure there isn't some kind of internal short that's blowing the fuse, simply pull the VL wire off the relay, then connect 30 to the VL wire. |
Thanks hou! I'm going to get this tomorrow!
Glauco |
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sjbartnik
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Joined: September 01, 2011
Posts: 5994
Location: Brooklyn
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: 67 turn signal problem |
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Any update on this issue? I'm curious how it turned out!
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2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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Mr.Oldskool
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Joined: November 04, 2012
Posts: 24
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:30 am Post subject: Re: 67 turn signal problem |
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| sjbartnik wrote: |
| Any update on this issue? I'm curious how it turned out! |
Ok, septembre was a busy month, haven't yet completely sorted it out yet.
found out there was a fault in my (brand new) wiring harness and that was why my turn signals would turn on every time I put on my running lights.
That problem is sorted, but still no turn signals.
Now if I touch the VL or VR wire directly to the 30 connection, my Left or right turn signal comes on, so I'm pretty sure there is no short to ground.
Tomorrow I'm goin to try to further sort it out.
my guess now is that the relay is toast, again.. |
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Mr. Oldskool
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Joined: June 27, 2008
Posts: 10
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:05 am Post subject: Re: 67 turn signal problem |
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Ok, no succes.
I got everything to work but the turn signals.
I took out the relay and opend it, nu I can't see anything wrong.
Is there an easy wat to measure every connection or should I just buy a new relay..? |
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sputnick60
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xzener
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:33 am Post subject: Re: 67 turn signal problem |
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Do we know the switch is good?
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My 70 beetle was totaled Now to build the Ghia I always wanted. Rest in peace Ruby, I will miss you. Hello <insert Ghia name here>! |
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Mr. Oldskool
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Joined: June 27, 2008
Posts: 10
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:43 am Post subject: Re: 67 turn signal problem |
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I'm not 100% sure the switch is ok, but it schuld be, it's new and I can't see any faults there.
Of I turn on the hazard light the switch light up. But that's it, no blinking, no turn signals, nothing.. |
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xzener
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:58 am Post subject: Re: 67 turn signal problem |
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Does anyone know if VR and VL are simply giving it a ground... You could test the switch that way. If giving a ground one at a time and it works, you can rule out the switch.
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My 70 beetle was totaled Now to build the Ghia I always wanted. Rest in peace Ruby, I will miss you. Hello <insert Ghia name here>! |
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Mr.Oldskool
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Joined: November 04, 2012
Posts: 24
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:44 am Post subject: Re: 67 turn signal problem |
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| xzener wrote: |
| Does anyone know if VR and VL are simply giving it a ground... You could test the switch that way. If giving a ground one at a time and it works, you can rule out the switch. |
Good question. I see the turn signal switch needs to be grounded as well, could that be a problem to get the turn signals to work?
I'm going back to the garage on thursday, hoping to get a little smarter once more..  |
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sputnick60
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xzener
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| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:35 am Post subject: Re: 67 turn signal problem |
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Just trying to figure out more ways of helping narrow down the problem. Throwing out ideas.
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My 70 beetle was totaled Now to build the Ghia I always wanted. Rest in peace Ruby, I will miss you. Hello <insert Ghia name here>! |
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