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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26785 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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Ti's cool all the mysteries are being solved at least, tho sorry I wasn't able to guess what it was.
A lot of these things kind of like NEW problems, stuff we don't necessarily even think about, like which thickness of material to make the gaskets from, but you aren't the first and not the last. |
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fivelugshortaxle Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011 Posts: 4254 Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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modok wrote: |
Ti's cool all the mysteries are being solved at least, tho sorry I wasn't able to guess what it was.
A lot of these things kind of like NEW problems, stuff we don't necessarily even think about, like which thickness of material to make the gaskets from, but you aren't the first and not the last. |
Hunting for .015 to .020 gasket material....can't find it. I like the idea of using a gasket rather than using the 518. Know where I can find that material? _________________ Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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74 Thing Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004 Posts: 7391
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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Use the 518 Loctite and not the manifold gaskets especially with a large ported intake and you stepping on it. It may suck a gasket again and you will have to waste your time doing the repair once again. Just make sure your carb with manifold seat on the head and do not interfere with any of the engine tin then torque it down and let the sealant set up overnight.
Of course re-doing the oil cooler seals is a priority as well. |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26785 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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I might be thinking .020 from doing too many toyotas. (.5mm)
1/32 aka .032" would be more common in merica.
Summit sells everything, but I'm not sure which if the 300 choices of materiel and thickness is best. Maybe we ask Ray Greenwood? |
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fivelugshortaxle Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011 Posts: 4254 Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:22 pm Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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74 Thing wrote: |
Use the 518 Loctite and not the manifold gaskets especially with a large ported intake and you stepping on it. It may suck a gasket again and you will have to waste your time doing the repair once again. Just make sure your carb with manifold seat on the head and do not interfere with any of the engine tin then torque it down and let the sealant set up overnight.
Of course re-doing the oil cooler seals is a priority as well. |
Pulling motor tonight. Replacing the cooler seals and getting it ready for the rhino mounts that I ordered from CB. Agreed on the 518. Just never used it before so a bit apprehensive. I'll be sure to check fitment and if needed I'll do a bit of grinding on the tin with my dremel _________________ Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26785 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:31 pm Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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The gasket material I am using is no longer sold, turns out. Oh well.
http://www.victorreinz.com/img_cpm/Dichtungsmaterialien.jpg
Apparently the non-stick coating gives you cancer and the nitrile is not -necessarily- ethanol resistant.
Loctite 518 never hurt anybody, and it has a shelf life of infinity.
has to cure tho, and the cure on aluminum is spotty.
It'll cure quick if you buff the surface with a fine brass wire as prep. |
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fivelugshortaxle Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011 Posts: 4254 Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:12 pm Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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Oil cooler question. Took the cooler off and I was wrong about the gaskets....I had the correct ones on. But I have an emergency question....when I took the stand off the case, oil poured out.....maybe 4 or 5 ounces. I thought that it was odd that it hadn't drained back....but then I don't understand the oil cooler system. Looking down on the case from the rear of the car the oil port closest to the rear was filled to tbe rim with oil. Again, I thought this was odd so I took a piece of tubing and covered the hole....blew through the other side of th3 tubing and nothing....oil doesn't move...like I was blowjng against a wall. Is this normal? Could there be an issue with the plumbing? Also got bktbe carbs and manifods off and bothe gaskets were sucked tbrough at the plenum....they're getting 518'ed.
Thinki g the reason the oil didn't move was the anti drain back valve in the external oil filter? _________________ Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26785 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:25 pm Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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fivelugshortaxle wrote: |
Thinki g the reason the oil didn't move was the anti drain back valve in the external oil filter? |
bingo. apparently, it's working.
And humans can only generate a few PSI pressure anyway. At only 2psi cold oil will not be moving very quickly anyway, unless you are very patient! |
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fivelugshortaxle Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011 Posts: 4254 Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:29 pm Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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modok wrote: |
fivelugshortaxle wrote: |
Thinki g the reason the oil didn't move was the anti drain back valve in the external oil filter? |
bingo. apparently, it's working.
And humans can only generate a few PSI pressure anyway. At only 2psi cold oil will not be moving very quickly anyway, unless you are very patient! |
Lol....thanks.....I was kinda freaking. Also, I'm just guessing, but I'm guessing the hot spots caused from not using all the tin and having vacuum leaks at the intakes is probably why my oil temps are getting high? Oil temps were good the one time the intakes weren't leaking....and then I got on it hard and bam....sucked gaskets. All the tin is going on as soon as it gets here....also going to hunt for a better shroud...anybody got a F.I. shroud? _________________ Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26785 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:36 pm Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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I think you get a good combo of tins you'll see a 20 or 30 degree drop. it's not huge difference, but all the little details do add up. |
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fivelugshortaxle Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011 Posts: 4254 Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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modok wrote: |
I think you get a good combo of tins you'll see a 20 or 30 degree drop. it's not huge difference, but all the little details do add up. |
that will work......it was getting to 240ish before the intake leaks. Funny thi g is the oil smells fine. Doesn't smell burnt at all....still very very clean looking. _________________ Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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fivelugshortaxle Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011 Posts: 4254 Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:41 pm Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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What do you consider a good combo of tins? _________________ Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26785 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:16 am Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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One that gives me enough space to accommodate the sc14 supercharger.
(been on the mind lately)
I think we covered the basics and main points already, besides that it's just a matter of tweaking it to work best for what you need it to do.
I'm not an expert on hotrodding the stock oil cooler, I actually more often than not in the past elected to get rid of it and just run a remote.....but that's not always the best, specially in traffic jams. |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:12 am Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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blowing in the front hole your trying to blow past all the bearings&lifters, blowing past the rear hole your trying to blow past the filter and the oil pump.. the bearings& lifters all togeather have less rezestance.thus more drain back there.witch is good as it lets the oil drain back after shut down and helps cool things as it drains back.witch helps keep the oil from coking. doing the hoover mod may keep the coking on the rocker system down.or eliminate it totaly due to much better oil supply when it's running and keeping the rockers cooler.
if you oil was to smell burnt your would be screwed.
I havent done the 518 on intake gadgets, but probably will at some point, Ive only had one gadget issue in over 80000 miles on this motor.so not a real issue for me. I coat the gaskets with either silocone real good and work it in the material or a light penetrant like wd 40 toll there sopping and let them dry some befor installing. this helps keep them from drying out and cracking. the silocone method is expecialy good for ex gaskets that tend to get hard&crack.( since the invent of copper ex gadgets thats all I use so no more silyconey). on my v8 shit once I started using the silycone i had zero header flange leeks and was able to reuse the header gaskets many times. ( copper ex gaskets at that tyme were expensive for a v they now also have aluminum ex gaskets.witch ive thought about for intakes.dead soft aluminum or copper.but a nice 3/16" thick fenalic would be sweet to help keep heat from rizing up the intakes.and they should seal well too.
word of caution!! 518 is LOCKTIGHT!!! so...dont get it on the threads!!!unles you want them locked tight and to pull the studs. I wish there was a spray that wood cut the 518 and disolve it for eazy clean up. permatex used to have a spray gasket remover, that stuff was awesome...but you couldent breathe around it when sprayed, I think it was a real strong oven cleaner type of stuff.worked great.it may of workd on this stuff.or may of eaten up the mag cases |
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fivelugshortaxle Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011 Posts: 4254 Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:44 am Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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Going to be tearimg the motor down and just checking and recheckng all the clearances. I think its a good idea and since it'll be out why not? Have too much invested in this motor not too. Besides....it'll be fun _________________ Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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Matthew Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2004 Posts: 1760 Location: Eastern Tennessee
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Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:11 am Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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fivelugshortaxle wrote: |
Going to be tearimg the motor down and just checking and recheckng all the clearances. I think its a good idea and since it'll be out why not? Have too much invested in this motor not too. Besides....it'll be fun |
If there are no strange sounds, oil leaks, or anything suspicious on the sump plate, I'd leave it intact and enjoy it. Get those intakes sealed up and have fun! _________________ 1965 Beetle sedan
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fivelugshortaxle Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011 Posts: 4254 Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:16 am Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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Matthew wrote: |
fivelugshortaxle wrote: |
Going to be tearimg the motor down and just checking and recheckng all the clearances. I think its a good idea and since it'll be out why not? Have too much invested in this motor not too. Besides....it'll be fun |
If there are no strange sounds, oil leaks, or anything suspicious on the sump plate, I'd leave it intact and enjoy it. Get those intakes sealed up and have fun! |
I may leave it alone....I may not. I'll check crank endplay and go from there. _________________ Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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fivelugshortaxle Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011 Posts: 4254 Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:19 am Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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Matthew wrote: |
fivelugshortaxle wrote: |
Going to be tearimg the motor down and just checking and recheckng all the clearances. I think its a good idea and since it'll be out why not? Have too much invested in this motor not too. Besides....it'll be fun |
If there are no strange sounds, oil leaks, or anything suspicious on the sump plate, I'd leave it intact and enjoy it. Get those intakes sealed up and have fun! |
I have a magnetic drain plug and last oil change there was a bit of a datk grayish material stuck to the magnet....maybe a thumbnails worth of material. ...all sludgy amd fine. Made me think it may be the cam. Is this normal for a new build? I'd rather check it.....I have another XR310 on the shelf....I'd just need to order lifters and new seals. I would rather just tear it down to see.....if its fine I'll put it back together. _________________ Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:31 am Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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probably normal, thus the reason for many filter changes as that clogs filters. when you change the filter &oil you are not getting all of the oil out or the debris. it clings to things.thus the reason for hot oil changes too. to try to get all that crap that has fallen out of suspension in the oil to get back in to the oil and not on the floor of the case. it's also a good idea if you have a ext clloer to have the oil filter befor the cooler, you dont need crap going through the cooler. real fine magnetic dusty goo is probably just from the rings&cylinders mating and yes some from the lobes too.rough or corse grit is a dead lobe. sometimes just floating the valves can cause some pitting and shit on the plug.witch may spell dis ass t her.or may not cause any issues at all. just remember if it's all good now, tearing it down can add issues that are not there. it's up 2 U. |
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Matthew Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2004 Posts: 1760 Location: Eastern Tennessee
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Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:34 am Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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The rings breaking in could give a little material on the drain plug. If it stops, you're fine. If you keep seeing that with every oil change something may be going on. If you get into it, I would leave the pistons in the jugs so you don't have to start over with ring seating. _________________ 1965 Beetle sedan
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