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Brake Drag Only When Going Forward
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57RTOval
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:34 am    Post subject: Brake Drag Only When Going Forward Reply with quote

Looking for some input on a brake issue on my 74 Thing. It has brake drag when going forward but rolls free going backwards. Any thoughts on why? I just bought this one and don't know the pedigree of the parts in the brake system. The only thing I suspect is the angle of the brake shoe frames is wrong where it meets the brake cylinder and star adjusters. That might cause the shoes to shift when going one way versus the other.
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Q-Dog
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake Drag Only When Going Forward Reply with quote

Maybe a sticking wheel cylinder.
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vwjetboat
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake Drag Only When Going Forward Reply with quote

shoes put on wrong.. over adjusted.. emergency brake cable sticking.. wheel cyl stuck .. brake retaining spring broke..

Have you jacked up and found what wheel or wheels are hanging yet ?
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c705ncp
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake Drag Only When Going Forward Reply with quote

Apart from what has allready been said when jacked up find out which wheel or wheels is causeing the problem. I had a simular problem a few years ago and it turned out that one of the brake linings had come off brake shoe and was riding over ajuster.
Robert
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vwjetboat
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake Drag Only When Going Forward Reply with quote

c705ncp wrote:
Apart from what has allready been said when jacked up find out which wheel or wheels is causeing the problem. I had a simular problem a few years ago and it turned out that one of the brake linings had come off brake shoe and was riding over ajuster.
Robert

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57RTOval
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake Drag Only When Going Forward Reply with quote

Thought I was going to get to look at it tonight but maybe tomorrow. Anyhow, thanks for the ideas. I haven't jacked it to figure out which wheel is the culprit. I suspect one of the fronts. I completely disconnected the e-brake cables and verified the cables move freely. I did pull both rear drums so I know both rear cylinders are working, all the star adjusters have the notches facing upwards like they should. All the springs are good.

So my attention needs to focus on the fronts. I suspect a star adjuster is installed upside down or could be what Robert suggested, a brake lining has come loose.

Now that the grass is cut, I can get back to it tomorrow! Thanks.
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c705ncp
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake Drag Only When Going Forward Reply with quote

Did you find out what the problem was ?
Robert
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57RTOval
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake Drag Only When Going Forward Reply with quote

Still haven't solved the mystery yet. Was convinced it was the back brakes so loosened the e-brake cable and backed off the adjusters. Made sure the front wheel adjusters were good. Brake drag was worse! I picked up new rubber hoses over the weekend at Swapapaluza and will be trying that route next along with loosening the front adjusters.

I'm thinking it's time for a disc brake conversion!
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Ray Syverson
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake Drag Only When Going Forward Reply with quote

Well jack up the front and check for drag. Back off the adjustment if you have to, then test drive it. If the drag comes back then think maybe bad front brake lines, bad cylinder, or bad star springs.
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doublecanister
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: Brake Drag Only When Going Forward Reply with quote

This is a strange problem, i'm mulling myself what could be the cause.

I've just done brakes [system rebuilds] on my 51' pickup, 66 Mustang and some work on my 98' F150. June to Aug time frame.

So i'm still somewhat fresh on brakes and the systems,

For something to drag sounds like something's engaging the brakes on one wheel or all? That would have to mean pressure on the system, if not from the M/C, old hoses [when going bad] can cause residual pressure on the wheel cylinders, or the wheel cylinders themselves getting in a bind.

or
In reverse, meaning the brake pads aren't fully releasing....On drum brakes, it could be wheel cylinders, springs, some specific spots (at least on the fords) do require some bit of grease for the brake pads to move back n' forth,

And, We have no photos Sad to look at so a few other ideas came to mind.

Can it be something else dragging that sounds like brakes?

What happens if you pull the brake pads and spin the wheel/axle, do you still hear the noise?
That would be a wheel bearing I'd guess.

One other suggestion, what happens if you back off the brake pads so they don't drag the drums even slightly (not preferred for good brakes) but if you backed off the pads so they don't hit the drum, Engage the pads by pressing the brake pedal a few times, test spin the wheel, that may point to something engaging but not releasing.

(wheel cyl's, hoses, possible M/C)

On my Mustang, I believe my rear wheel cylinders were stuck in the bores and the star adjuster was out of adjustment. Once I pulled them, disassembled them and cleaned them good, they worked fine.

Other "guess" out of round brake drum maybe?

Ok I'm out of guess's and suggestions, hope anything mentioned will spark an idea.

Good luck! post up some photos

T
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57RTOval
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake Drag Only When Going Forward Reply with quote

Thanks for the input guys. I drove it from the car port into the garage yesterday to work on it. Brakes were still dragging noticeably coming in so I didn't have to touch the brakes to stop it. Shut it down and jacked the front. Wheels turned freely in the forward direction. Jacked each back wheel individually and they turned free as well. Doesn't make sense.

Anyhow, I installed all new rubber brake lines. Found the left front with at least a full twist in it from when they tightened the hardline to flexline joint and didn't hold the rubber line. Found the other side pulling tight when the wheel was turned hard to the left. Adjusted the bracket where the hardline meets the flexline so there's a little slack when the wheel is hardover. That's all sorted.

Now the fun part. I deliberately didn't bleed the system so there can't be any residual hydraulic pressure. The brake drag was still there when moving it back to the car port. So, it's something mechanical with the wheel cylinders/brake shoes/adjusters.

When backing out of the garage, the emergency brake would not apply smoothly. It would jump from a little braking to full on very quickly. Next step is to pull the rear brake shoes off completely and see what happens.

I'll take some pics when I pull the rear drums.
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c705ncp
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake Drag Only When Going Forward Reply with quote

You seem to have checked the most obvious things. Have you by any chance installed a new master cylinder or moved the pedal cluster. If so check to see if there is free play on thrust rod into master cylinder. If no free play or thight could stop fluid flowing back into reservoir causing brakes to drag.
Robert
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57RTOval
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake Drag Only When Going Forward Reply with quote

Found the problem. Both front wheel cylinders were frozen again. One had both the top and bottom pistons stuck and the other had just the top stuck. I assumed that after working them loose earlier (both in/out and twisting the piston), they would be OK because they were new in March this year. Obviously not.

The twisted and stretched hoses in the front might have been a factor, too.

I removed all the brake parts from the backing plate, safety wired the cylinder so it couldn't expand, put the drums and wheels back on, and it rolls freely. Finally! It was nice to drive it around the backyard a bit and get it safely back in the carport.

Next order of business is ordering some good wheel cylinders and investigating the brake shoes I pulled off. They have notches cut in them like rear brake shoes so I'm suspicious they're wrong.
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c705ncp
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake Drag Only When Going Forward Reply with quote

Problem solved . Good news.Have a sigh of relief until next problem come along.Ha ha
Robert
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57RTOval
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake Drag Only When Going Forward Reply with quote

Robert, I think you jinxed me! LOL

I haven't been happy with the brakes at all so decided to get a front disc conversion kit. Pulled the drums, unbolted the backing plate and started test fitting things. Found the inner wheel bearings from the kit didn't fit! They had about 0.1 inches of play on the spindle. So, checked the original inner bearing from the drum and found it was the also the wrong bearing with the same looseness. No wonder I've been having weird problems.

I think someone pulled some shenanigans with a replacement front beam. I found the installed beam does have Thing reinforcing plates but not the extra Y-supports to the floor pans.

End result is that I need front wheel bearings 311-405-625 (1.058 inch ID) instead of the 311-405-625D (1.138 ID) that came with the kit.

And to think I sold a Thing pan I had (with front beam) from a cut up car...jeez...
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74 Thing
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:17 am    Post subject: Re: Brake Drag Only When Going Forward Reply with quote

What kind of disc brake kit are you using?
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Brake Drag Only When Going Forward Reply with quote

57RTOval wrote:
Found the problem. Both front wheel cylinders were frozen again. One had both the top and bottom pistons stuck and the other had just the top stuck. I assumed that after working them loose earlier (both in/out and twisting the piston), they would be OK because they were new in March this year. Obviously not.

The twisted and stretched hoses in the front might have been a factor, too.

I removed all the brake parts from the backing plate, safety wired the cylinder so it couldn't expand, put the drums and wheels back on, and it rolls freely. Finally! It was nice to drive it around the backyard a bit and get it safely back in the carport.

Next order of business is ordering some good wheel cylinders and investigating the brake shoes I pulled off. They have notches cut in them like rear brake shoes so I'm suspicious they're wrong.



To work them loose you would need to pull the pistons and wire brush or otherwise clean the pistons free of corrosion. If the cylinders were rusted as well you would need to be able to home them clean. Very often just replacing them would be the best way to go. Something obviously was not right with your replacement cylinders. Crying or Very sad
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