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airshac
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Joined: May 30, 2015
Posts: 168
Location: Durham, NC United States
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 Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
Buy a degree pulley and upgrade to the heavier style to get the get extra benefits. Kill two birds with one stone and be done with it. Etched is better than a stick on label.
Swapping out the pulley may take longer than 45 seconds, but it shouldn't take longer than 15 minutes.
Or using your old stock 7" diameter pulley you can make a mark 1 3/4" over from TDC for 28°. |
Hi Wildthings and Aeromech! I need to do a valve adjustment on my 71 bus and I have the aftermarket etched degreed pulley. Can you walk me through the process of using this ring properly?
Also I found out recently that the aftermarket pulley is a different diameter than the oem one and the belts used are different sizes...doh!
Thanks!
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Any time I park the bus and it's not smoking, leaking or on fire I consider it a good trip.
1971 Westfalia adventure wagon Festy Westy.
1977 Tintop, Weekender conversion in progress. |
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aeromech
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Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 16971
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:09 am Post subject: Re: degree pulley ring |
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I can certainly do that but if your engine has the smaller "power pulley" installed you better get that off asap and get the stock diameter pulley before you do anything else. Can you upload a pic of your engine?
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airshac
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2015
Posts: 168
Location: Durham, NC United States
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:19 am Post subject: Re: degree pulley ring |
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| aeromech wrote: |
| I can certainly do that but if your engine has the smaller "power pulley" installed you better get that off asap and get the stock diameter pulley before you do anything else. Can you upload a pic of your engine? |
I don't have a pic right now but if you watch the beginning of this video I made you can kind of see what I'm dealing with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AYCvGs7VkQ
It is a smaller diameter because what I thought was a spare belt turned out to be too big... The aftermarket pulley was a PO install. What is wrong with it being smaller?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AYCvGs7VkQ
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Any time I park the bus and it's not smoking, leaking or on fire I consider it a good trip.
1971 Westfalia adventure wagon Festy Westy.
1977 Tintop, Weekender conversion in progress. |
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aeromech
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Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 16971
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:51 am Post subject: Re: degree pulley ring |
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Hard to tell from the video if that's a power pulley or not. Looks like not from here. Measure the diameter. It should be 7 inches I believe. Do you know what size belt you installed? Should be a X 905 I think.
The reason they call them "power pulleys" is because being a smaller diameter makes it easier for the engine to turn, therefore giving you a bit more HP to the wheels. The problem is that it affects how fast your cooling fan turns. In a bus, cooling is very important. Much more so than say a bug or dune buggy which is where you generally find power pulleys.
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Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
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Tcash
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Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:10 am Post subject: Re: degree pulley ring |
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airshac
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2015
Posts: 168
Location: Durham, NC United States
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:49 am Post subject: Re: degree pulley ring |
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| aeromech wrote: |
Hard to tell from the video if that's a power pulley or not. Looks like not from here. Measure the diameter. It should be 7 inches I believe. Do you know what size belt you installed? Should be a X 905 I think.
The reason they call them "power pulleys" is because being a smaller diameter makes it easier for the engine to turn, therefore giving you a bit more HP to the wheels. The problem is that it affects how fast your cooling fan turns. In a bus, cooling is very important. Much more so than say a bug or dune buggy which is where you generally find power pulleys. |
Here is a better picture of my pulley. It is 7" in diameter.
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Any time I park the bus and it's not smoking, leaking or on fire I consider it a good trip.
1971 Westfalia adventure wagon Festy Westy.
1977 Tintop, Weekender conversion in progress. |
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aeromech
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Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 16971
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:54 am Post subject: Re: degree pulley ring |
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That one looks fine. Let me know if you still have questions about adjusting your valves.
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: degree pulley ring |
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| Yes, 7" is the stock size. You just need to follow any good guide for adjusting the valves. If you don't already have it John Muir's Idiot Book is a good primer for beginners. |
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airshac
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Posts: 168
Location: Durham, NC United States
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:00 am Post subject: Re: degree pulley ring |
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| aeromech wrote: |
| That one looks fine. Let me know if you still have questions about adjusting your valves. |
I guess my real question is how do I use this pulley to aid In adjusting the valves as opposed to guessing about tdc etc.
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Any time I park the bus and it's not smoking, leaking or on fire I consider it a good trip.
1971 Westfalia adventure wagon Festy Westy.
1977 Tintop, Weekender conversion in progress. |
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Wildthings
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:42 am Post subject: Re: degree pulley ring |
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You can clearly see the TDC markings in this photo. It is in the same location as the "U" on a stock pulley and needs to be aligned with the crankcase parting line. You will need to verify which piston is at TDC by looking at which spark plug wire the rotor is pointed at if the plug wires are known to be in the correct location (as in the engine will run normally), or checking for valve overlap on an engine which may not have its wires in the correct order and thus doesn't run. You can also check when compression is occurring on a given cylinder by removing one or more spark plugs. |
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SGKent 
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:18 am Post subject: Re: degree pulley ring |
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the exact split in the case (part line) is the timing pointer. The number on the puller is degrees.
O is Top dead center (marked TDC) the opposite side is BDC or bottom dead center. Some cylinders - 1 and 3 are adjusted at TDC, and 2 and 4 are adjusted at BDC
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aeromech
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Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:14 am Post subject: Re: degree pulley ring |
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One bit of advice for you since you're just learning. When you go to adjust a valve, if you think you have to turn the adjuster more than about half a turn either direction then you need to stop because you probably don't have the engine in the correct position.
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Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
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Tcash
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Joined: July 20, 2011
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Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:51 am Post subject: Re: degree pulley ring |
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Vintage VW Training Film - Valve Adjustments Part 1-2
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vwjetboat
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Joined: May 11, 2017
Posts: 1732
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:31 pm Post subject: Re: degree pulley ring |
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| guess I am weird.. or stuck in the past.. I use my ear, hand & seat of paints to set timing.. |
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borninabus
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Joined: May 18, 2006
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Location: Arizona Highways
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: degree pulley ring |
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| vwjetboat wrote: |
| guess I am weird.. or stuck in the past.. I use my ear, hand & seat of paints to set timing.. |
on what? your 350 chevy?
this method--if you can even call it that--may work for you on those types of cars but is a big time no-no on an ACVW, especially a bus.
i wouldn't call it weird or stuck in the past, i would call it something else...
yeah, they run great with about 45deg max advance, but it also tends to put holes in the tops of pistons 
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vwjetboat
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: degree pulley ring |
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| borninabus wrote: |
| vwjetboat wrote: |
| guess I am weird.. or stuck in the past.. I use my ear, hand & seat of paints to set timing.. |
on what? your 350 chevy?
this method--if you can even call it that--may work for you on those types of cars but is a big time no-no on an ACVW, especially a bus.
i wouldn't call it weird or stuck in the past, i would call it something else...
yeah, they run great with about 45deg max advance, but it also tends to put holes in the tops of pistons |
why you always find the sweet spot then back it down a tad.. and never had a VW engine come back with a hole in piston.. |
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Tcash
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Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: degree pulley ring |
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I cannot find the article. But they did a experiment, where they attached a timing control knob to the dash of a car. Something like this ADJUSTABLE TIMING CONTROL. They explained to the test subjects Mechanics and Laymen alike, what pinging was. Then instructed them to drive the vehicle and adjust the timing to eliminate pinging and get the best performance.
The results where Laymen where as capable as Mechanics at finding that sweet spot.
There are just too many variables to state one timing specification is right for all conditions.
Time on
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vwjetboat
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Location: Florida
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: degree pulley ring |
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| Tcash wrote: |
I cannot find the article. But they did a experiment, where they attached a timing control knob to the dash of a car. Something like this ADJUSTABLE TIMING CONTROL. They explained to the test subjects Mechanics and Laymen alike, what pinging was. Then instructed them to drive the vehicle and adjust the timing to eliminate pinging and get the best performance.
The results where Laymen where as capable as Mechanics at finding that sweet spot.
There are just too many variables to state one timing specification is right for all conditions.
Time on
Tcash |
and then you have people like me.. that have a very good feel for things.. and can tell what is going on.. its called experience.. stating at 10 on lawn mower engines then age 13 in a real shop.. built my first engine when I was 14 it was a 351C 4V boss mustang.. All out race engines.. YES timing light is critical but in most cases .. no its not.. |
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busdaddy
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Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: degree pulley ring |
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| vwjetboat wrote: |
| Tcash wrote: |
I cannot find the article. But they did a experiment, where they attached a timing control knob to the dash of a car. Something like this ADJUSTABLE TIMING CONTROL. They explained to the test subjects Mechanics and Laymen alike, what pinging was. Then instructed them to drive the vehicle and adjust the timing to eliminate pinging and get the best performance.
The results where Laymen where as capable as Mechanics at finding that sweet spot.
There are just too many variables to state one timing specification is right for all conditions.
Time on
Tcash |
and then you have people like me.. that have a very good feel for things.. and can tell what is going on.. its called experience.. stating at 10 on lawn mower engines then age 13 in a real shop.. built my first engine when I was 14 it was a 351C 4V boss mustang.. All out race engines.. YES timing light is critical but in most cases .. no its not.. |
Your experience sounds very similar to mine, but even doing it "by ear" there are times when engine heat and load align to make even the best eyeball job ping even though it's been fine for months, I prefer to sacrifice a tiny bit of everyday performance for the safety of setting it with the light at speed and not having to rebuild my (or a customers) engine.
Go ahead and time however you like, but be careful suggesting a noob with no ear for it try the same thing. Aircooleds are noisy and it's hard to pick out the ping from the other normal noises they make if your "ear" isn't tuned for it.
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Wildthings
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:26 pm Post subject: Re: degree pulley ring |
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Timing by ear lacks repeatability something which is important to most engines and very important to an air cooled as even a 2° variance in timing can make a noticeable difference in head temps.
I used to run sub regular Gulftane gas in my old land cruiser and time it by ear so it just pinged lightly at 20 mph in high gear when floored, but have always timed my aircooled either statically or with a light so that I know exactly where the timing is at. I can check my timing statically at a campground or filling station with not tools, just listening for the spark as I turn the engine over by hand. If the timing is off I know something is happening that needs to be fixed then and there and not tomorrow or the next day. |
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