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wuwei75
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2014
Posts: 264
Location: OKC
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 Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:09 am Post subject: 1835 Fuel Injection Question |
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hi all,
Seriously considering doing FI for my 1835 110 cam 7.CR. Reliability, turbo capabilities, etc.
Has anyone done this?
I've got a plethora of options but am trying to decide between:
1. Mexi Beetle FI kit: I worry that it won't work for my size/spec engine.
2. Single IDF 40 throttle body setup with FI castings OR injected at the TB: Is this feasible?
3. Jbugs setup: this has a 34p3 and don't think it will play well with my engine given what I know now about my engine specs.
open to suggestions.
thanks,
brett
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1974 Super Beetle (Jill)
1972 Fastback (Maude) |
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DeathBySnuSnu
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2012
Posts: 1183
Location: MS
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:55 am Post subject: Re: 1835 Fuel Injection Question |
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With a 110 cam you probably need itb's to get it right.
If you want to have a go at a center mount I would be looking at fuel injection end castings and a throttle body off some small 2l car that has an idle air valve that I can control with a megasquirt.
But I have not built this combo before. |
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Chip 
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2008
Posts: 969
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:41 pm Post subject: Re: 1835 Fuel Injection Question |
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| I built a mexi'd 2054. Ran very smooth. I had a cross between 110 and 120 cam in it. I drove it NA for 3 or 4 months and then turbo'd it and daily drove it for another 9 months. It drove very nice, coupled with a really small turbo and an intercooler it would probably have beem a fantastic daily driver setup. My goals were for a little more power than it comfortably gave, and so i changed it, but it fit like it was factory, was easy to change spark plugs, and drove super nice. I ran an MS 2 ecu. Worked great. |
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Paul.H
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2015
Posts: 613
Location: England
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:00 am Post subject: Re: 1835 Fuel Injection Question |
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Single point injection 36mm throttle body
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20377
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: 1835 Fuel Injection Question |
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If you want single point TB I would consider this with Megasquirt 2 or 3 for control and crankfire for ignition. Would probably be easy to blow through turbo later...
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=519841
With above setup I believe you have to also change alternator stand...
Dale
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“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
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Paul.H
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2015
Posts: 613
Location: England
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: 1835 Fuel Injection Question |
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| Dale M. wrote: |
If you want single point TB I would consider this with Megasquirt 2 or 3 for control and crankfire for ignition. Would probably be easy to blow through turbo later...
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=519841
With above setup I believe you have to also change alternator stand...
Dale |
Dale did you ever fit and run a mexican system with MS 2/3 ?
Ps. That's a multipoint injection BTW |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20377
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:00 pm Post subject: Re: 1835 Fuel Injection Question |
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| Paul.H wrote: |
| Dale M. wrote: |
If you want single point TB I would consider this with Megasquirt 2 or 3 for control and crankfire for ignition. Would probably be easy to blow through turbo later...
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=519841
With above setup I believe you have to also change alternator stand...
Dale |
Dale did you ever fit and run a mexican system with MS 2/3 ?
Ps. That's a multipoint injection BTW |
No.... Did lots of research becasue I intended to do race car with EFI, with IDF form factor TB's.... But never accomilated all the part and then I sold the car.... And yes multipoint, what better than injecting fuel right at port, its how most systm are done today...
You might want to go over to STF where the serious aircooled EFI guys hang out....
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewforum.php?f=23&sid=e229edc2355978137f254f99d2d8a941
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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Paul.H
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2015
Posts: 613
Location: England
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:11 pm Post subject: Re: 1835 Fuel Injection Question |
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| OH ! I just wondered how you got around the plastic fuel rails and poor injector port design which is not user friendly when it comes to modified engines and actually pretty dangerous |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20377
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:02 am Post subject: Re: 1835 Fuel Injection Question |
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| Paul.H wrote: |
| OH ! I just wondered how you got around the plastic fuel rails and poor injector port design which is not user friendly when it comes to modified engines and actually pretty dangerous |
One can simply make a metal fuel rail.... There is extruded aluminum bar stock specifically designed for fuel rail application, drill a few holes for injectors, tap ends for fittings or plugs...
As for injector port design, seems to work ok for thousands of bugs....
All I was trying to show was the is a design already out there easily adaptable.... If you want exotic... DIY your own TB from salvaged "pick-n-pull" motors or adapt motorcycle throttle bodies or buy the really expensive over prices IDF formfactor TB's...
http://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/7097.htm
http://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/7075.htm
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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gprudenciop
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008
Posts: 606
Location: portland or
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:28 am Post subject: Re: 1835 Fuel Injection Question |
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I ran the mex injection on a 2276 and it did good. And yes I made an aluminum fuel rail..even ported the ends...
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Chip
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2008
Posts: 969
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: 1835 Fuel Injection Question |
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| Paul.H wrote: |
| OH ! I just wondered how you got around the plastic fuel rails and poor injector port design which is not user friendly when it comes to modified engines and actually pretty dangerous |
I ran them in stock form. With the plastic rails. Not a problem with leaks, in fact, they actually bolted to the end castings, which is better than many of the current available options(Paul, your products are lovely and not what I'm referring to  ) I'm sure there were big gains to be had if I had relocated the injectors higher and such, but i didn't want to mess with stuff, so i just sent the to the next guy. |
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DeathBySnuSnu
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2012
Posts: 1183
Location: MS
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: 1835 Fuel Injection Question |
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Could go with motorcycle parts.
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karu
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2008
Posts: 229
Location: Cross Lanes, WV
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: 1835 Fuel Injection Question |
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| DeathBySnuSnu wrote: |
Could go with motorcycle parts.
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Looks neat. What throttle bodies did you use? |
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DeathBySnuSnu
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2012
Posts: 1183
Location: MS
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: 1835 Fuel Injection Question |
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Kawasaki xz12r
44mm throat |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20377
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:51 am Post subject: Re: 1835 Fuel Injection Question |
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If one looks around real hard there are MC bodies that are individual throats/bodies, some are pairs of 2 throat each.... If you can get TB with correct diameter and throat spacing close, adapter plate may be solution of the day.... Lots of concepts/discussion over on STF about this...
Ebay has lots of these throttle bodies listed... Many with injectors and fuel rails ...
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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mcmscott
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2010
Posts: 4856
Location: sanger ca
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:07 am Post subject: Re: 1835 Fuel Injection Question |
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Mexican injection with CB gen3 ecu, originally used the Mex ecu. Now turbo charged
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Paul.H
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2015
Posts: 613
Location: England
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:01 am Post subject: Re: 1835 Fuel Injection Question |
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The mexican injection has some merits but here's my experience and the downsides.
As discussed the plastic fuel rails are junk and the ports in the end casting are just a codge the correct fix would be to weld in some 14mm ally injector bungs and make a metal fuel rail and better hold down mech then you have a choice of injectors. Fuel rail should have clips to hold the injector should the rail come loose.
The intake tubes are so close together that it makes it difficult to fit some better silicon sleeves and get clips around them.
You need to use the special alternator stand
Throttle body is about 37mm but sits in convoluted bore so it's flow capability is drastically reduced.
I did have one of these set ups and did make some bungs for the injector ports and was planning on some dyno testing but then I said to myself "what are you doing with this junk" sold it all on ebay and put on a pair of 42mm single throat throttle bodys . Now I'd just put the single point 36mm throttle on there but they weren't available at that time |
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