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jonnynotch
Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2005
Posts: 32
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 Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:26 pm Post subject: Stroker Engine W/Factory FI |
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Hi
Searched a pile of threads on the Type 3 forum and have been unable to locate anything on anyone running a stroker with D-jet. I have found serveral references to this subject regarding max size, potential cam issues, injector upgrades etc. So, the theory seems solid. I'm just struggling to find real world examples. Anyone know of a type 3 running a 1760, 1749, 1791, something in that range?
I like the idea of preserving the FI on these cars. Just wondering how far one can go with performance engine upgrades...within a reasonable budget.
Thanks
Jon |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:40 pm Post subject: Re: Stroker Engine W/Factory FI |
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| jonnynotch wrote: |
Hi
Searched a pile of threads on the Type 3 forum and have been unable to locate anything on anyone running a stroker with D-jet. I have found serveral references to this subject regarding max size, potential cam issues, injector upgrades etc. So, the theory seems solid. I'm just struggling to find real world examples. Anyone know of a type 3 running a 1760, 1749, 1791, something in that range?
I like the idea of preserving the FI on these cars. Just wondering how far one can go with performance engine upgrades...within a reasonable budget.
Thanks
Jon |
Well....the 2.0L Porsche 914....runs D-jet, but has a bigger plenun, runners, injectors that are the same flow but can sustain higher pulsewidth.....some recalibration to the MPS....so yes tbe system can run it.
The type 4 1.7L....is 1679. Other than calibration of the MPS and some tweaks in the ECU and distributor curve.....its the same system.
The key will not be the system at all. On a 1.7L type 4 the runners and plenum are about perfectly sized. They can run an 1800.....barely.
Your type 3 runners, plenum and TB are your limitation. I would say 1776 is the limit.....and ai still think you need a bigger TB to make it worth it.
Ray |
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notchboy
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 22463
Location: Escondido CA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: Stroker Engine W/Factory FI |
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And....
I am running a 2.3liter on the stock FI right now in my 77 bus. Runs amazing. Big balls and power.
_________________
| t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: Stroker Engine W/Factory FI |
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| notchboy wrote: |
And....
I am running a 2.3liter on the stock FI right now in my 77 bus. Runs amazing. Big balls and power. |
Yep.....the system is not tbe limitation. Its the intake system and exhaust.
For that matter....for mix and match....between Porsche, Vw, BMW,Mercedes, Renault and Volvo.....there are enough mix and match parts.....if you need them....to be able to run any engine off the "system".
Its just going to be ahout feeding it air and tuning it. Ray |
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Sqrbckguy38
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2004
Posts: 415
Location: Tooele, ut
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: Stroker Engine W/Factory FI |
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Real world example, I ran my 70 fastback with an 1835 and the stock fi. It took a bunch of tuning, and ran a stock cam for a while. It was fun, but could have been much better. I'm working now on a better version hopefully about a 1.9l.
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It's not the fall that hurts, it's the sudden stop at the bottom.
69 Square needs love, even after 15 years
70 Fasty former dd, now my daughter's
67 Beetle, Opal |
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jonnynotch
Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2005
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:02 pm Post subject: Re: Stroker Engine W/Factory FI |
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Thanks Sqrbckguy38
You say you ran a stock cam for a while...what did you change out to? Any recommendations on rockers?
| Quote: |
| Real world example, I ran my 70 fastback with an 1835 and the stock fi. It took a bunch of tuning, and ran a stock cam for a while. It was fun, but could have been much better. I'm working now on a better version hopefully about a 1.9l. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:46 am Post subject: Re: Stroker Engine W/Factory FI |
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| Sqrbckguy38 wrote: |
| Real world example, I ran my 70 fastback with an 1835 and the stock fi. It took a bunch of tuning, and ran a stock cam for a while. It was fun, but could have been much better. I'm working now on a better version hopefully about a 1.9l. |
What did you do for intake and TB?
You can make and engine "run" smoothly even when the intake tract is grossly undersized....but it leaves so much HP and torque on the table that in the long run its hardly worth the effort of making it bigger.
Sqrbckguy38 said:
You say you ran a stock cam for a while...what did you change out to? Any recommendations on rockers?
I would be careful in screwing with rocker ratios...if you are not going to make changes to runner diameter and intake plenum volume. If you are up-sizing without intake tract changes....increasing rocker ratio might be a problem.
Why do you increase rocker ratio?...to get better breathing right?
You just have to remember to ask yourself where is it going to get this extra air to breath with a constrained intake tract. It may actually help on some cylinders ....especially those that are out of time with the intake valve event. It may hurt on the others.
The two keys to D-jet...is do not do anything that greatly changes the vacuum signature pulse.
and
Do not do anything that greatly changes the intake valve or lobe center.
Ray |
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stonecoldcars
Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2013
Posts: 265
Location: Oregon
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W1K1
Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004
Posts: 4921
Location: Southern AB
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34021
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: Stroker Engine W/Factory FI |
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| W1K1 wrote: |
| ...you are still limited on the top end by your intake volume. Redline might end up being 4K on something like a 1904cc |
I can't directly confirm the 4K for 1904, but on my rebuilt 1600 (now 1776, still with D-jet) I have a redline of 4500-5000. It will spin to 5K (I balanced the innards) but there's really no point because of the power falloff, and it's almost certainly due to the intake limitation. It's not fuel-limited because I put larger injectors in it and retuned the MPS with an A/F meter. The better low-end of the 1776 vs. 1600 means I got the wider safe power band I had sought, but it's no redline racer! Great for the street and highway, though. |
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