Author |
Message |
GArBa Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2014 Posts: 2103 Location: Milano, Italy
|
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:54 pm Post subject: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) |
|
|
a fatal incident happened this week in Milan involving a VW thing. the rear left drum came loose and the wheel jumped lanes and hit a biker coming from the other direction, killing him. The driver of the thing managed to coast to the right shoulder and was unharmed.
report (in italian) and pictures from italian leading newspaper "corriere della sera" here
(rough) english automatic translation here courtesy of google
Root causes of the incident are being investigated by prosecutors but, in the meantime, a general recommendation to anyone working on their brakes: do not take shortcuts, do not overlook rebuilding procedures, don't go cheap on materials.
RIP to the victim of the incident and condolences to his family. _________________ cars:
'97 type 1 1600i
'14 type AA Seat Mii (sadly dead after 270.000 km)
'22 type C1 T-Cross
'23 type AC3 Hyundai I10 (VW no longer makes small cars!)
-------------------------
moped:
'82 Benelli Magnum 3v |
|
Back to top |
|
|
anthracitedub Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2007 Posts: 3241 Location: Michigan
|
Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:02 am Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) |
|
|
Wow! That's terrible. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69733 Location: Phoenix Metro
|
Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:41 am Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) |
|
|
Crap, that is terrible. The whole drum, came off, that is abnormal, I wonder if it cracked or the large nut failed.
The translation is a bit weird:
Quote: |
The centaur could not avoid the wheel that suddenly detached from an old Volkswagen Peach in transit on the opposite lane. It has reported severe trauma to the head and chest, unnecessary to ride to the hospital |
Pics
_________________ How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12815 Location: North Carolina
|
Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:39 am Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) |
|
|
EverettB wrote: |
Crap, that is terrible. The whole drum, came off, that is abnormal, I wonder if it cracked or the large nut failed.
|
"We don't need no stinkin cotter pin." _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13382 Location: Arizona
|
Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:50 am Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) |
|
|
Pretty scary that a mistake working on our VW's can lead to killing someone. Of course we all know this but this thread is a good reminder to cross the "T's" and dot the "I's".
That poor guy on the bike. RIP _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31268 Location: Hot Arizona
|
Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:31 am Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) |
|
|
EverettB wrote: |
Crap, that is terrible. The whole drum, came off, that is abnormal, I wonder if it cracked or the large nut failed. |
Memorial Day 1981, mid-day; traveling from Arizona to San Pedro CA in my 1970 VW with Mrs. Cusser #1 to go on a 4-day honeymoon cruise. On I-10 in California somewhere on west side of Desert Center, a barefoot guy with no shirt (remember how hot it gets out here) runs into the freeway to flag me down. Turns out that his older VW did throw the tire/wheel/drum and he had no jack, flagged me down because he wanted to borrow my jack. Amazingly, he had found the rear axle nut; and more amazing: I had my 36mm socket are breaker bar with me, and a replacement big cotter pin.
So it can happen, have no idea if his axle nut had a retaining cotter pin in it prior to that or not, doubt it. Anyway, got him going, doubt he ever realized how fortunate he was that someone with socket and cotter pin just happened by...rare like getting struck by lightning holding the winning lottery ticket in hand ! That guy was sure no rocket scientist, and I don't know if he ever grew up to become President.... _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dan Hiebert Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2016 Posts: 169 Location: Northern Maine
|
Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:16 am Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) |
|
|
Like the guy in Florida back in 2013 that got swallowed up by a sinkhole that opened up under his bedroom - one of those things that make me believe in FATE. When it's your time - there's nothing you can do about it. If you've come close and "miraculously" survived - it wasn't your time. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
|
Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:29 am Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) |
|
|
so sad to hear. many people just dont realize things like this can happen and do happen. forget the cotter pin and just from driving the nut comes loose.it was probably not torqued high enough either, but the cotter pin should of held it till the splines cut loose. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
|
Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:37 am Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) |
|
|
Cusser wrote: |
EverettB wrote: |
Crap, that is terrible. The whole drum, came off, that is abnormal, I wonder if it cracked or the large nut failed. |
Memorial Day 1981, mid-day; traveling from Arizona to San Pedro CA in my 1970 VW with Mrs. Cusser #1 to go on a 4-day honeymoon cruise. On I-10 in California somewhere on west side of Desert Center, a barefoot guy with no shirt (remember how hot it gets out here) runs into the freeway to flag me down. Turns out that his older VW did throw the tire/wheel/drum and he had no jack, flagged me down because he wanted to borrow my jack. Amazingly, he had found the rear axle nut; and more amazing: I had my 36mm socket are breaker bar with me, and a replacement big cotter pin.
So it can happen, have no idea if his axle nut had a retaining cotter pin in it prior to that or not, doubt it. Anyway, got him going, doubt he ever realized how fortunate he was that someone with socket and cotter pin just happened by...rare like getting struck by lightning holding the winning lottery ticket in hand ! That guy was sure no rocket scientist, and I don't know if he ever grew up to become President.... |
Actually.....and I have seen this a handful of times.....even when some people put the cotter pin in....if its installed incorrectly and ...is the wrong SIZE cotter pin....long miles can rattle that pin around and just wear it in half.
This is especially prevalent on basic cheap "hardware store" cotter pins...made for your daddy's wheel barrow.....that are neither zinc plated or stainless steel.
Between the cotter pin rusting to crap on wheels that run no hubcaps....and a pin that is not really large enough in diameter to fill the hole....and has only one leg bent on the other side.....that rusting cotter pin will flip and vibrate around and just turn into powder.
If the cotter pin is not TIGHT once you bend the legs back....it can rattle until a large portion of it wears away. Ray |
|
Back to top |
|
|
busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
|
Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:51 am Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) |
|
|
There's also the possibility that someone spared no expense and put a new nut on it.
Tram wrote: |
raygreenwood wrote: |
Tram wrote: |
This should end the debate about the "quality" of new VW replacement parts.
Observe the simple Early Bay brake drum castle nut... You know, the one with all the torque?
Before installing:
After installing:
Any questions?
It's come down to a business decision for me... if I can't get NOS or German parts, I'm not touching it. Even the Danish stuff blows now. I recently put the electrical part of an ignition switch in a customer's Squareback. Made in Denmark.
First switch fell apart in the bag as I was removing the bag with the switch in it from the box.
Second switch came from a different vendor. Wound up being the same brand- not quite as bad as the first one, but the parts guy rolled his eyes at me and grabbed a punch and gently tapped the dimples in the metal can down onto the plastic to snug it up because I wouldn't do it. Then he handed it to me and told me it'd be fine and he'd guarantee it if it wasn't.
I put it in for the customer mid June. It's coming back on the hook as soon as I can get it in. Sure, my guy will give me another one, but how many times do I want to tear this damn thing apart to do this?
It ain't just Bays |
Aww.....Those look like little round "Toblerones"......just crack off a piece when you need one!
Who made those? Ray |
Beats me, but AFAIK the parts guy I use got em through IMC just like everything else. Could you just imagine going around a sharp curve down a steep mountain pass when this happens? |
_________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13382 Location: Arizona
|
Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:31 am Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) |
|
|
busdaddy wrote: |
There's also the possibility that someone spared no expense and put a new nut on it.
Tram wrote: |
raygreenwood wrote: |
Tram wrote: |
This should end the debate about the "quality" of new VW replacement parts.
Observe the simple Early Bay brake drum castle nut... You know, the one with all the torque?
Before installing:
After installing:
Any questions?
It's come down to a business decision for me... if I can't get NOS or German parts, I'm not touching it. Even the Danish stuff blows now. I recently put the electrical part of an ignition switch in a customer's Squareback. Made in Denmark.
First switch fell apart in the bag as I was removing the bag with the switch in it from the box.
Second switch came from a different vendor. Wound up being the same brand- not quite as bad as the first one, but the parts guy rolled his eyes at me and grabbed a punch and gently tapped the dimples in the metal can down onto the plastic to snug it up because I wouldn't do it. Then he handed it to me and told me it'd be fine and he'd guarantee it if it wasn't.
I put it in for the customer mid June. It's coming back on the hook as soon as I can get it in. Sure, my guy will give me another one, but how many times do I want to tear this damn thing apart to do this?
It ain't just Bays |
Aww.....Those look like little round "Toblerones"......just crack off a piece when you need one!
Who made those? Ray |
Beats me, but AFAIK the parts guy I use got em through IMC just like everything else. Could you just imagine going around a sharp curve down a steep mountain pass when this happens? |
|
I was thinking about this post from Tram as well Mark. It would be something if the investigators recovered a cheap nut like this broke and caused the fatality. Maybe a serious lawsuit against the manufacture would improve the quality of these shitting parts we have to deal with.
Oh who am I kidding.. I'm sure that crappy nut is made in some third world country by a company that's hidden behind multiple fronts. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
|
Back to top |
|
|
williamM Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2008 Posts: 4333 Location: southwest Arizona
|
Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) |
|
|
thats a shame- rolling up the road and seeing a tire coming at you.--
Just a note on cotter pins- Any boat yard will have them for older outboards- high quality and SS. trim to match. _________________ some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.
opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.
Don't step in any! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12454
|
Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:32 am Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) |
|
|
williamM wrote: |
thats a shame- rolling up the road and seeing a tire coming at you.--
Just a note on cotter pins- Any boat yard will have them for older outboards- high quality and SS. trim to match. |
Yes I would and often do use stainless steel cotter pins. It's easy to speculate as to what happened, could be stub axle coming apart as well, who knows. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
satterley_sr Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2005 Posts: 650 Location: Belleville,MI
|
Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) |
|
|
That sure is a tragedy, had a trailer wheel come off due to a broken axle one time going down a hill. Wheel hit a pick up coming the other way. Totaled the truck, luckily no one was hurt.
We also break rear drums in formula Vee, Italian or Chinese. The OG smooth drums never seem to break. There are also special made replacement drum without the tab hole. _________________ DDC racing |
|
Back to top |
|
|
GArBa Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2014 Posts: 2103 Location: Milano, Italy
|
Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) |
|
|
EverettB wrote: |
The translation is a bit weird:
Quote: |
...old Volkswagen Peach... |
|
aside form usual issues when going from romance to germanic languages and vice-versa, the term "peach", which seems completely out of place here, is actually google trying to figure out the italian name of the VW 181, i.e. "Pescaccia".
That was meant by VW to be a portmanteau of "pesca" and "caccia" which mean respectively "(the activity of) fishing" and "(the activity of) hunting". (to give the idea, I'll render the name in English as "Fishunting").
now unfortunately for VW "pesca" also means "peach" and "-accia" is a pejorative suffix so the name evokes in most Italian speakers (and in google's translator, too) images of a "bad peach" rather than the intended outdoor sports, and it is considered to have been one of the causes of the lackluster sales record of the VW 181 in Italy.
just a bit of trivia. In the meantime, the italian VW community is of course aware of this tragic incident and I'll try to update this thread if and when new information will be available. _________________ cars:
'97 type 1 1600i
'14 type AA Seat Mii (sadly dead after 270.000 km)
'22 type C1 T-Cross
'23 type AC3 Hyundai I10 (VW no longer makes small cars!)
-------------------------
moped:
'82 Benelli Magnum 3v |
|
Back to top |
|
|
6T5 square Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2005 Posts: 1081 Location: Dover, DE
|
Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:42 am Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) |
|
|
We've been talking about putting the pin back in, but how many of us have used the same pin every time we've taken off the back wheel?
I try to always replace the pin every time I remove the wheel. _________________ John
65 square 1500S (weezer) sold but always on my mind
60 beetle (Ned)
Quoting John Muir -- Open the rear boot. Get out the stool and sit down. Contemplate the air-cooled beauty before you. - How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive -- Step-By-Step Procedures for the Compleat Idiot |
|
Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
|
Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:16 am Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) |
|
|
6T5 square wrote: |
We've been talking about putting the pin back in, but how many of us have used the same pin every time we've taken off the back wheel?
I try to always replace the pin every time I remove the wheel. |
Yes.....spot on! You should always replace cotter pins. One should also carry a handful of cotter pins in your spares kit to cover axles, tie rods and in my case also for the idler arm and pitman arm. Ray |
|
Back to top |
|
|
wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13382 Location: Arizona
|
Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:16 am Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) |
|
|
raygreenwood wrote: |
6T5 square wrote: |
We've been talking about putting the pin back in, but how many of us have used the same pin every time we've taken off the back wheel?
I try to always replace the pin every time I remove the wheel. |
Yes.....spot on! You should always replace cotter pins. One should also carry a handful of cotter pins in your spares kit to cover axles, tie rods and in my case also for the idler arm and pitman arm. Ray |
I've always reused the cotter pins but it's not a good practice clearly. I've also always torqued the axle nuts correctly and have never had one come loose. A lot of driveway mechanics don't though which is why they should always use a new, correct cotter pin as insurance. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Jon Schmid Samba Member
Joined: May 29, 2012 Posts: 2033 Location: Southern California
|
Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) |
|
|
A high school classmate of mine was killed some years ago in the same manner. An entire wheel broke loose from the trailer of a big rig on a local freeway, bounced over the center divider, and landed on him head on while he was driving his MG. Killed him instantly. As for Thing's entire wheel coming off, I wonder what the brake drum splines look like. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
vwinnovator Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 1555 Location: Still doing it in the back of your VW
|
Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:28 am Post subject: Re: Fatal incident in Milan (VW Thing involved) |
|
|
purely under torqued and cotter pin left out... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|