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jlarmen
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2017
Posts: 34
Location: Texas
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 Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:57 am Post subject: VIN confusion |
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So, I ran the plates through the vm-mplate.com decoder and received the below listing. What I'm confused about is the bus as I bought has a pop-top and what looks like factory or original holes and hardware for a camper, yet the listing says 7 seater. Were the Westfalia or other company doing campers after the fact or were they shipped as campers? I know it's not an after factory hack because the hardware matches all photos I've seen of Westys, though the interior seats and cabinets are long gone.
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Model Type 2 (T2) mod. 221(1) :
- Microbus
- 7 seater (arrangement 2-2-3)
- Sliding door right
- LHD
Chassis number 229136402
Serial number 136 402
Modelyear 1969
Planned production date February 24 ,1969
Type of engine Type 1 (B5) - 1584cc, 35 kW (47 bhp DIN)
Type of transmission Manual 4-speed gearbox
Paint color
Color upper part : L581 - Cloud White
Color lower part : L610 - Delta Green
Interior color (doorpanels and seats) 33 - Light Grey/Medium Grey Leatherette
Destination USA, New Orleans |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51116
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:42 am Post subject: Re: VIN confusion |
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Post some pictures, Westfalia did conversions before they got on the boat and the M plate says so (unless sometimes when the destination says Germany), many aftermarket conversion companies used whatever the dealer had in stock or the customer brought them. Could also have been done by a PO with a donor camper. Some pics of the bus inside and out should give it away.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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jlarmen
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2017
Posts: 34
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: VIN confusion |
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Thanks, so this is the bus before I've stripped everything. Working on a partial roof replacement and currently having the top refinished by a friend who works fiberglass.
I'll see if I have any pictures after the top was taken off.
Last edited by jlarmen on Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51116
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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jlarmen
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2017
Posts: 34
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: VIN confusion |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
| Post some pictures, Westfalia did conversions before they got on the boat and the M plate says so (unless sometimes when the destination says Germany), many aftermarket conversion companies used whatever the dealer had in stock or the customer brought them. Could also have been done by a PO with a donor camper. Some pics of the bus inside and out should give it away. |
I'll get some pics of the opening. It doesn't look like a homegrown cutout or install. There is the extra roof section under the main that opens to the opening as well the rubber for the hammock. |
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jlarmen
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2017
Posts: 34
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: VIN confusion |
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Thanks, here's the other VIN and the one I fed into the decoder.
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: VIN confusion |
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| What about the vin on the dash and the one in the engine compartment? |
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jlarmen
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2017
Posts: 34
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: VIN confusion |
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| Tcash wrote: |
| What about the vin on the dash and the one in the engine compartment? |
The engines a rebuilt donor and I'll check the dash when I get home. |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51116
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: VIN confusion |
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A 69 won't have a plate on the dash, that didn't start until 70.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: VIN confusion |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
| A 69 won't have a plate on the dash, that didn't start until 70. |
Whoops
| jlarmen wrote: |
| Tcash wrote: |
| What about the vin on the dash and the one in the engine compartment? |
The engines a rebuilt donor and I'll check the dash when I get home. |
Not the engine number. The Chassis number stamped on the body to the right of the engine in front of the air cleaner.
Middle picture.
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51116
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: VIN confusion |
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| jlarmen wrote: |
Thanks, here's the other VIN and the one I fed into the decoder.
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Anyone else notice something odd about the rivets on that M plate? 
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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67ctbug
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2016
Posts: 3619
Location: CT
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: VIN confusion |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
| jlarmen wrote: |
Thanks, here's the other VIN and the one I fed into the decoder.
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Anyone else notice something odd about the rivets on that M plate? |
Yup, It's got the wrong rivets... OG ones are put on backwards. That is not good at all. You might have a stolen bus or something.
_________________
'67 Beetle L41
'74 Westfalia
'69 Plymouth "Adam-12"
'63 Ragtop
'73 914
'73 Dodge W200
'72 Dodge Wrecker
Go Cubs!
World Series Champions 2016
| KentPS wrote: |
...or the PO envied the terrorists' bus in "Back to the Future".  |
| mukluk wrote: |
| He's fine, just waiting for the dragon in winklepickers to move out of his lane. |
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: VIN confusion |
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Good eye BD. Doesn't mean it's stolen. They may have took them off to paint at one time?
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jlarmen
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2017
Posts: 34
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: VIN confusion |
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| 67ctbug wrote: |
| busdaddy wrote: |
| jlarmen wrote: |
Thanks, here's the other VIN and the one I fed into the decoder.
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Anyone else notice something odd about the rivets on that M plate? |
Yup, It's got the wrong rivets... OG ones are put on backwards. That is not good at all. You might have a stolen bus or something. |
Yeah, that's a little presumptuous. It's been in storage for 18 years, clean title, two owners. It has tons of bondo, fiberglass and 3 different colors under that and a lot non-original patch jobs. |
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67ctbug
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2016
Posts: 3619
Location: CT
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: VIN confusion |
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I wasn't saying it WAS stolen, I simply said that you may have one because the vins were changed out. If it's got a clean title and two owners than I wouldn't be worried about it being stolen.
_________________
'67 Beetle L41
'74 Westfalia
'69 Plymouth "Adam-12"
'63 Ragtop
'73 914
'73 Dodge W200
'72 Dodge Wrecker
Go Cubs!
World Series Champions 2016
| KentPS wrote: |
| ...or the PO envied the terrorists' bus in "Back to the Future". |
| mukluk wrote: |
| He's fine, just waiting for the dragon in winklepickers to move out of his lane. |
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SamboSamba22
Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2015
Posts: 2772
Location: Benton, Arkansas
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: VIN confusion |
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Need to know the numbers on the chassis, left rear area in the engine compartment.
A couple of things could have taken place here, one a 7-passenger bus was converted into a camper.
- Time consuming
- Costly
- With being in storage for almost 2 decades the times before storing would warrant a Westfalia bus for minimal amounts of time and money compared to doing a conversion one self.
A good ole VW guy had a handful of buses, took that current bus filled with bondo, which was totaled, and replaced the plates with a 7-passenger bus, allowing him to either drive it or sell it.
That’s all I’ve got, its been a while since I’ve caught Dateline with Lester Holt.
_________________
The Bus Barn Ltd. Co.
Oct. ’67 Double Cab (’68 Crew Cab)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44412.png]Click to view image[/URL]
March '69 Delivery (Panel Bus)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44414.png]Click to view image[/URL] |
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jlarmen
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2017
Posts: 34
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: VIN confusion |
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| SamboSamba22 wrote: |
Need to know the numbers on the chassis, left rear area in the engine compartment.
A couple of things could have taken place here, one a 7-passenger bus was converted into a camper.
- Time consuming
- Costly
- With being in storage for almost 2 decades the times before storing would warrant a Westfalia bus for minimal amounts of time and money compared to doing a conversion one self.
A good ole VW guy had a handful of buses, took that current bus filled with bondo, which was totaled, and replaced the plates with a 7-passenger bus, allowing him to either drive it or sell it.
That’s all I’ve got, its been a while since I’ve caught Dateline with Lester Holt. |
I'll look for the numbers when I get back in town. Still dealing with hurricane cr*p. The VW shop I bought it off said the seller was a VW mechanic, parts and re-seller since the 70's before closing shop, then stored it among others, so the latter may be plausible. Won't be many original parts left when I'm done, so a classic restoration is not what I'm after, just a driver. |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51116
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: VIN confusion |
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I'm not saying it's stolen, just suspicious looking, I'm curious what the number beside the battery looks like from above and below. Some more pics of the cab and interior would help clear it up, pulling a spring plate cap off the rear torsion housing and seeing what color is under it would be even more decisive.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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jlarmen
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2017
Posts: 34
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: VIN confusion |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
| I'm not saying it's stolen, just suspicious looking, I'm curious what the number beside the battery looks like from above and below. Some more pics of the cab and interior would help clear it up, pulling a spring plate cap off the rear torsion housing and seeing what color is under it would be even more decisive. |
An interior shot. The base color under the bondo, primer, white coat matches the delta green specced. |
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