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Priming the oil
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DeathBySnuSnu
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:07 pm    Post subject: Priming the oil Reply with quote

Building a pressure can.
Thinking I can fill this with oil and hook it to the full flow inlet.
Hook air pressure to the top and fully pressure the oil system.
Even see my rocker squirters work without actually running the engine. Hand crank over the engine at pressure. Then it would be ready for cranking.

What does everyone do for priming?
I have not tried this method before.


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Glenn Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Priming the oil Reply with quote

Lots of assembly lube works for me.
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modok
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Priming the oil Reply with quote

I pressure lube all the "real" engines. not vws tho Razz
Big diesels it takes half a gallon to just fill the oil cooler, or more.

Goodson and melling make ones for 200$....but are you paying for the paint job????
it's just a air tank with a few fittings.
You need valve on bottom for oil out.
Valve on top for air in, and let the air out later. Gauge optional.
big 3/4 fitting and plug to put the oil in.
and a scale to place it on while in use. Measure weight.
Weigh empty, then add oil, then you can see how much oil is in it as you go. Don't want to run it out of oil and blow air in there, so always will be a quart left in the bottle.
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DeathBySnuSnu
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Priming the oil Reply with quote

This is made from whatever is laying around the shop.
It is way heavy for what it needs to do and stainless steel to boot.

So yes...3/4 fitting on top and bottom. Volume should 5 quarts easily with room for air. 6 inch pipe 12 long.

I had not thought about a scale to know where the end is. That is a good idea. My original thought was to put more oil in can that what the engine holds. Then stop when the dip stick said so.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Priming the oil Reply with quote

Just do it until you actually hear the oil coming out of the rockers. Then you know it's everywhere. Wink I'm serious.
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Max Welton
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Priming the oil Reply with quote

I did a tiny version of that. Worked just fine.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=779410#779410

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Priming the oil Reply with quote

I use a bug sprayer, hook it to the line coming off the oil pump going to the filter. Pump 4 qts or more thru it this way. I never add oil thru the filler on initial start.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Priming the oil Reply with quote

Mine is just like modok described but I added a clear sight tube to keep an eye on the oil level. I use 20psi hooked to the top. I turn the engine over slowly by hand while it's pumping. Once I get 2.5qts in, I disconnect the tank and hook a different short length of clear hose to the bottom pump outlet. I put a funnel into the hose and fill it with oil. Then turn to engine over backwards and it will pull the oil out of the funnel, completely filling the pump and pickup tube.

Once I have done these two things, I crank the engine with no plugs just to make sure. It always builds pressure in about 6-8 revolutions. Install the plugs, and let her rip!
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esde
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Priming the oil Reply with quote

you are apparently also suffering from the MIBS. (more is better syndrome)
I used the same concept, just raided the plumbing cabinet at my shop.
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Upside is that I can pull the 1-2 side valve cover and see when I'm getting oil at the rockers. Downside is that it was hard to know when I had sent how much of my oil into the engine. I've since put a sight glass in the lid, and a quarter turn valve at the outlet.
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DeathBySnuSnu
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Priming the oil Reply with quote

Purty much the same thing there.

I don't have left over plumbing at the Shop. But I do have stainless steel. It is made of whatever was laying around in the scrap piles.
Yes it is way over kill but it is what I have at zero cost.

Good to see it works this way.

I would like to see how much oil comes out of the rockers.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Priming the oil Reply with quote

Here is my hardware store version.
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And the funnel for priming the pump turning it backwards.
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modok
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Priming the oil Reply with quote

[quote="DeathBySnuSnu"] stop when the dip stick said so. [/quote]
That's fine too.
More often than not I don't have a dipstick. They don't bring it.
Isn't that funny, but....would you? Wink
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Priming the oil Reply with quote

I have a pvc one also. I dont know if it really helps anything. I assemble with oil and not lube. Starting it up for the first time is like a cold start in the morning.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Priming the oil Reply with quote

I lube everything up with a moldy lube as I assemble....and I use whatever cam lube manufacturer of cam recommends. Fill with oil and crank after I've made sure the electric pump has filled the float bowls and I know the ignition system is good. Static timing of 10.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Priming the oil Reply with quote

Plenty of assembly lube during build, spin it up with stater (with sparkplugs out) till you get oil pressure..... Never lost a engine yet this way...

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Priming the oil Reply with quote

And that is basically all I ever did before.
I tyred to get the filter and cooler and pump full of oil then spin it some. Then light it.
Possibly over thinking it This time.
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esde
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Priming the oil Reply with quote

Might not be needed, true. But if ever, the saying "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" applies. You have to fill the engine anyway, so if you can fill it and the oil passages also... why not? It literally costs less to make the thing than buy the oil.
Different strokes for different folks I suppose..
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:49 am    Post subject: Re: Priming the oil Reply with quote

Taking this a step further, how about on every startup... Once saw a video where they primed engine on every start up (some sort of "really car")... Tank and gauge ands valve right on floor next to driver... So you have to be able to pump a volume of oil back into reservoir, and pressurize it (use oil pump to a pressure source against a volume of air in reservoir) so now you have "another" system to maintain... You are ready for start up, look down at gauge and no pressure in reservoir, 1> did I recharge reservoir after start up, 2> is there actually any oil in reservoir, 3> do I have a leak somewhere.... And so it goes... And where is "extra" oil stored... Is it in "pan" or is or in separate tank or after you recharge reservoir before shutdown, of so is engine actually a couple of quarts low now or a couple of extra quarts in pan?.... And so it goes!...

Yeah I know the argument will be There is residual oil in galleries and pump that does not drain out so internals are still wet, but let's take it a bit further anyway...

About only advantage I can see with pressurized oiling before start up is to possible wet internals (prime) of oil pump... And then the good old grease pack job seems to work well...

Dale
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:00 am    Post subject: Re: Priming the oil Reply with quote

Dale.

Yes I have been there done that.
An accusump on a 1600hp blower motor.

Was not necessarily a primer for first ever start up.
But you could turn it loose and prime every start if you wanted to.
It's primary function was to catch dips in pressure. Acceleration g forces and chute reverse g was violent. Really should have dry sumped it.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:04 am    Post subject: Re: Priming the oil Reply with quote

I have a canton oil accumulator on the turbo oil feed on my 07 dodge cummins, it's plugged into the turbo oil feed, and feeds oil to the turbo for about a minute after shutdown. It's just a quart of pressurized oil "on standby" and not much to go wrong. I had the same on my old 97 for almost 200k miles and never an issue. The construction is essentially the same as what DeathBySnuSnu has made, his is actually heavier duty.
I've been contemplating using an accumulator with a solenoid valve (instead of a manual valve), as a pre oiler but have some things to sort still. My truck sometimes gets started 20-30 times a day, and eventually it takes a toll.
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