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DeathBySnuSnu Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2012 Posts: 1180 Location: MS
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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:07 pm Post subject: Priming the oil |
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Building a pressure can.
Thinking I can fill this with oil and hook it to the full flow inlet.
Hook air pressure to the top and fully pressure the oil system.
Even see my rocker squirters work without actually running the engine. Hand crank over the engine at pressure. Then it would be ready for cranking.
What does everyone do for priming?
I have not tried this method before.
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: Priming the oil |
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Lots of assembly lube works for me. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26743 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: Priming the oil |
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I pressure lube all the "real" engines. not vws tho
Big diesels it takes half a gallon to just fill the oil cooler, or more.
Goodson and melling make ones for 200$....but are you paying for the paint job????
it's just a air tank with a few fittings.
You need valve on bottom for oil out.
Valve on top for air in, and let the air out later. Gauge optional.
big 3/4 fitting and plug to put the oil in.
and a scale to place it on while in use. Measure weight.
Weigh empty, then add oil, then you can see how much oil is in it as you go. Don't want to run it out of oil and blow air in there, so always will be a quart left in the bottle. |
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DeathBySnuSnu Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2012 Posts: 1180 Location: MS
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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: Priming the oil |
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This is made from whatever is laying around the shop.
It is way heavy for what it needs to do and stainless steel to boot.
So yes...3/4 fitting on top and bottom. Volume should 5 quarts easily with room for air. 6 inch pipe 12 long.
I had not thought about a scale to know where the end is. That is a good idea. My original thought was to put more oil in can that what the engine holds. Then stop when the dip stick said so. |
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Splitdog Samba Split Personality
Joined: February 16, 2004 Posts: 4124 Location: Planet VW
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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Priming the oil |
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Just do it until you actually hear the oil coming out of the rockers. Then you know it's everywhere. I'm serious. _________________ CH³NO²
Z = z² + C
Der Blitzkrieg Kafers
#notacallooker
Last edited by Splitdog on Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Max Welton Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2003 Posts: 10697 Location: Black Forest, CO
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mcmscott Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2010 Posts: 4848 Location: sanger ca
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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: Priming the oil |
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I use a bug sprayer, hook it to the line coming off the oil pump going to the filter. Pump 4 qts or more thru it this way. I never add oil thru the filler on initial start. _________________ There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,
68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250 |
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Brian_e Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009 Posts: 3228 Location: Rapid City, SD
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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: Priming the oil |
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Mine is just like modok described but I added a clear sight tube to keep an eye on the oil level. I use 20psi hooked to the top. I turn the engine over slowly by hand while it's pumping. Once I get 2.5qts in, I disconnect the tank and hook a different short length of clear hose to the bottom pump outlet. I put a funnel into the hose and fill it with oil. Then turn to engine over backwards and it will pull the oil out of the funnel, completely filling the pump and pickup tube.
Once I have done these two things, I crank the engine with no plugs just to make sure. It always builds pressure in about 6-8 revolutions. Install the plugs, and let her rip! |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5927 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Priming the oil |
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you are apparently also suffering from the MIBS. (more is better syndrome)
I used the same concept, just raided the plumbing cabinet at my shop.
Upside is that I can pull the 1-2 side valve cover and see when I'm getting oil at the rockers. Downside is that it was hard to know when I had sent how much of my oil into the engine. I've since put a sight glass in the lid, and a quarter turn valve at the outlet. _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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DeathBySnuSnu Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2012 Posts: 1180 Location: MS
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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:51 pm Post subject: Re: Priming the oil |
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Purty much the same thing there.
I don't have left over plumbing at the Shop. But I do have stainless steel. It is made of whatever was laying around in the scrap piles.
Yes it is way over kill but it is what I have at zero cost.
Good to see it works this way.
I would like to see how much oil comes out of the rockers.
[/img] |
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Brian_e Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009 Posts: 3228 Location: Rapid City, SD
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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: Priming the oil |
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Here is my hardware store version.
And the funnel for priming the pump turning it backwards.
Brian |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26743 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: Priming the oil |
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[quote="DeathBySnuSnu"] stop when the dip stick said so. [/quote]
That's fine too.
More often than not I don't have a dipstick. They don't bring it.
Isn't that funny, but....would you? |
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jason Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2002 Posts: 3443 Location: Garage
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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:56 pm Post subject: Re: Priming the oil |
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I have a pvc one also. I dont know if it really helps anything. I assemble with oil and not lube. Starting it up for the first time is like a cold start in the morning. |
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fivelugshortaxle Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011 Posts: 4254 Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:52 pm Post subject: Re: Priming the oil |
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I lube everything up with a moldy lube as I assemble....and I use whatever cam lube manufacturer of cam recommends. Fill with oil and crank after I've made sure the electric pump has filled the float bowls and I know the ignition system is good. Static timing of 10. _________________ Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
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Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
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Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: Priming the oil |
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Plenty of assembly lube during build, spin it up with stater (with sparkplugs out) till you get oil pressure..... Never lost a engine yet this way...
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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DeathBySnuSnu Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2012 Posts: 1180 Location: MS
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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: Priming the oil |
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And that is basically all I ever did before.
I tyred to get the filter and cooler and pump full of oil then spin it some. Then light it.
Possibly over thinking it This time. |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5927 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: Priming the oil |
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Might not be needed, true. But if ever, the saying "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" applies. You have to fill the engine anyway, so if you can fill it and the oil passages also... why not? It literally costs less to make the thing than buy the oil.
Different strokes for different folks I suppose.. _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:49 am Post subject: Re: Priming the oil |
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Taking this a step further, how about on every startup... Once saw a video where they primed engine on every start up (some sort of "really car")... Tank and gauge ands valve right on floor next to driver... So you have to be able to pump a volume of oil back into reservoir, and pressurize it (use oil pump to a pressure source against a volume of air in reservoir) so now you have "another" system to maintain... You are ready for start up, look down at gauge and no pressure in reservoir, 1> did I recharge reservoir after start up, 2> is there actually any oil in reservoir, 3> do I have a leak somewhere.... And so it goes... And where is "extra" oil stored... Is it in "pan" or is or in separate tank or after you recharge reservoir before shutdown, of so is engine actually a couple of quarts low now or a couple of extra quarts in pan?.... And so it goes!...
Yeah I know the argument will be There is residual oil in galleries and pump that does not drain out so internals are still wet, but let's take it a bit further anyway...
About only advantage I can see with pressurized oiling before start up is to possible wet internals (prime) of oil pump... And then the good old grease pack job seems to work well...
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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DeathBySnuSnu Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2012 Posts: 1180 Location: MS
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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:00 am Post subject: Re: Priming the oil |
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Dale.
Yes I have been there done that.
An accusump on a 1600hp blower motor.
Was not necessarily a primer for first ever start up.
But you could turn it loose and prime every start if you wanted to.
It's primary function was to catch dips in pressure. Acceleration g forces and chute reverse g was violent. Really should have dry sumped it. |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5927 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:04 am Post subject: Re: Priming the oil |
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I have a canton oil accumulator on the turbo oil feed on my 07 dodge cummins, it's plugged into the turbo oil feed, and feeds oil to the turbo for about a minute after shutdown. It's just a quart of pressurized oil "on standby" and not much to go wrong. I had the same on my old 97 for almost 200k miles and never an issue. The construction is essentially the same as what DeathBySnuSnu has made, his is actually heavier duty.
I've been contemplating using an accumulator with a solenoid valve (instead of a manual valve), as a pre oiler but have some things to sort still. My truck sometimes gets started 20-30 times a day, and eventually it takes a toll. _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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