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Restoring my 78 from the ground up
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Charlie57
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:56 pm    Post subject: Restoring my 78 from the ground up Reply with quote

I am going to start a post of my 1978 Bus, most the tear down has been done and I am now starting to put things back together. Today I just got my engine back from Brothers.
This is what Brother's wrote about the engine.
T4 Long Block
1910cc
heads 39x34
solid lifters
C-95 cam
009 distributor
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Now I have to remember how it all goes back together!
Charlie
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ac78
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Restoring my 78 from the ground up Reply with quote

Looking good Charlie! I sent you a pm about a local tent if you're interested.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Restoring my 78 from the ground up Reply with quote

Looking good!
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Restoring my 78 from the ground up Reply with quote

why are you messing with this junk? kick that 57 off the pans and blow the dust off of her!

nice engine too.... Razz
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Charlie57
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Restoring my 78 from the ground up Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
why are you messing with this junk? kick that 57 off the pans and blow the dust off of her!

nice engine too.... Razz


That's what I would like to do! I've got the 57, this bus, a 89 F150, parting out a 98 Mustang and maybe going to pick up a 32 Chevy all under construction!

Does anyone know of any good links to the assembly order for this engine? I have been looking, can't find anything.
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Bleyseng
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 4:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Restoring my 78 from the ground up Reply with quote

http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145853&start=45

Sell the 009 dizzy and get a SVDA that has the right advance curve for a type 4 engine.
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Charlie57
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Restoring my 78 from the ground up Reply with quote

Ran into a few questions:
1) Mine does not have a thermostat, or the bracket, or the cable. I did some reading how the thermostats are getting harder to find and cost over $100. Is there any one now making a more realistically priced one. I can find nothing about the bracket that holds it on. Do they make one or do I just have to find one?
2) I need the top LH side top piece of tin anyone got one? I would like to replace this hacked up one.
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3) My flap bar on the fan housing is missing one of the plastic bushing, do they make those?
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Charlie57
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Restoring my 78 from the ground up Reply with quote

Hello Everyone,
It's been about a year, we had a death in the family and everything was put on hold. Today we rolled the 78 into the garage to start the steps to installing it. I have done nothing to it since my last post a year ago. Looking forward to getting some stuff down.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Restoring my 78 from the ground up Reply with quote

Welcome back and sorry for your loss. Please bring us up to date and we'll try to help
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Restoring my 78 from the ground up Reply with quote

A factor of life that most of donít understand and impact us in ways we cannot fathom, I am deeply sorry to hear of your loss.
Welcome back to the Samba, and perhaps share with us your hard work and find once again, an escape from the daily tasks and responsibilities.
Sure is nice to cruise and get out for a weekend in a bus, make sure to share it with those you love!
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Charlie57
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Restoring my 78 from the ground up Reply with quote

Today I found out that based on my engine code CB041862 this is not a 2.0 from 1978 but a 72-73 1.7L engine. Brother said it's a 1910 cc. is that because it is bored out? In general is having a 1.7 a good thing or bad or does it really matter? I'm not too concerned either way.
I have ordered the thermostat assembly from awesome powdercoat and Avery's Aircooled about getting the tin I still need. Where should I go for spark plugs, spark plug wires and oil filter? What type oil do I need to run?
Thanks,
Charlie
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asiab3
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:06 am    Post subject: Re: Restoring my 78 from the ground up Reply with quote

Charlie57 wrote:
Today I found out that based on my engine code CB041862 this is not a 2.0 from 1978 but a 72-73 1.7L engine. Brother said it's a 1910 cc. is that because it is bored out? In general is having a 1.7 a good thing or bad or does it really matter? I'm not too concerned either way.
I have ordered the thermostat assembly from awesome powdercoat and Avery's Aircooled about getting the tin I still need. Where should I go for spark plugs, spark plug wires and oil filter? What type oil do I need to run?
Thanks,
Charlie


Your engine started life as a 1679cc (commonly called 1.7L/1700cc), but now it's been built out to a 1910 or 1911cc (almost 2L/2000cc) engine. They did this by using the stock 66mm crankshaft from your original engine, and using larger pistons/cylidners (96mm instead of 90mm.) I do not know if the 96mm pistons/cylinders require boring, but Brother's is usually a competent shop, so they would have only bored it if needed. I think the 66mm crank is an excellent crank, so you'll likely have a nice high-revving engine. A 2-liter engine is well-matched the the six rib 091 transaxle in a bus.

For plugs, wires, and other tune-up parts, I like AutoHausAZ.com. They have a good selection, free shipping on large orders, and they list brands in stock, rather than saying "German" or some crap. "German" isn't a brand. (I'm talking to you, Wolfsburg West!)

NGK BP6ET seem to be the best Type 4 plugs these days. The threads are excellent, and the triple-electrode design lasts pretty much forever. (Plus, no gapping them before installation!) I use a light smudge of anti-seize on the threads before starting them by hand. (Always get many turns by hand on a plug before putting a wrench on it.)

I use the Mahle/Knecht OC-28 oil filter, or the Bosch stock filter, but I can't remember the part number right now, sorry. The Type 4 oil filter mount is the same as the Ford FL-1a filter, which is a few cm longer than the stock filter. It might be the most common oil filter in the world. When you're out in the middle of nowhere, the FL-1a can be used as a safe substitute, just don't go rock crawling with one. I've also heard good things about the Napa Wix Gold filters.

Oil? The slippery kind. Really, you need to ask your engine builder, because oil weight is determined by bearing clearances and climate. Only your builder knows your bearing clearances, and only you know your local climate. Tons of internet experts (dear god, stay off Facebook) will tell you this, that, or the other, but at the end of the day, the main thing you need is 10psi of oil pressure per 1,000 RPM during the hottest and harshest driving you will do. (Plus, if your engine builder offers a warranty, asking them questions like this establishes good faith that you did your due diligence to keeping the engine happy.)

Good luck!
Robbie
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Charlie57
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:16 am    Post subject: Re: Restoring my 78 from the ground up Reply with quote

Robbie,
Thanks! That's a lot of great information and thank you for taking the time to type it!
Charlie
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jtauxe
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:33 am    Post subject: Re: Restoring my 78 from the ground up Reply with quote

I presume that this long block has not had any break-in procedure yet. That would help to inform what sort of oil you should put in it for the break-in, since it is my understanding that the break-in oil might be different from your regular running oil, and it will be changed soon at any rate.. You should ask the builder how to go about getting the engine completely broken in correctly. Wilson's book also discusses this.
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Charlie57
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Restoring my 78 from the ground up Reply with quote

I had not even thought about the motor break in. I did a procedure on my 57 Chevy. I will shoot Brothers a email and get their proper procedure.
Thanks,
Charlie
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hiwaycallin
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Restoring my 78 from the ground up Reply with quote

A few years ago when I had my engine rebuilt I received the following advice from Amskeptic. I followed it to a "T" with great results. Note that this is what to do after the initial start-up / no-load break-in has been done.


If your engine has more than 5 but hopefully less than 20 miles, it is time to break in the rings.

You gently warm the engine up to operating temperatures by driving it within one minute of starting it, like the owner's manuals have been telling us all for a half century. Any engine wants to get warm quickly, these air-cooled engines particularly do. So get a load on it right away, but drive gently, no bazai rev runs.

Once it is warm (20 minutes), you need to apply good pressure to the rings so they will seat against the cylinder walls. If you are too gentle, the rings will not knock off the minor imperfections placed on the cylinder walls by honing. You want your rings and your cylinders to become good friends, and some serious contact is the way to do it.

So find a level quiet road and get up to 20-25 mph in 3rd gear. Now accelerate with just under full throttle to 45-50 mph, then release the accelerator and allow the engine to slow the car back down to 25-30 and repeat five times. Then drive normally for a couple of miles and repeat the whole shebang another five times at full throttle. This is no excuse to drive like a maniac, just ease on to full throttle on it ease off into your coastdown. When you accelerate, you let metal shed off the walls, coasting down in gear lets the engine rinse the metal flakes down into the sump. Heat is an issue with fresh rings, the friction is substantial, so we want to let your engine dissipate the generated heat with these coastdowns as well, the couple of miles of normal driving in the middle also helps. When you get home, change the oil right away. Let it drip for an hour even. Then refill and change the oil again in about 100 miles (you may be beyond this if you have already been driving it for a few days, but there is no such thing as changing it too frequently with a fresh rebuild).

Did you do the work? Are you proud?
Colin
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Spike0180
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:20 am    Post subject: Re: Restoring my 78 from the ground up Reply with quote

hiwaycallin wrote:
A few years ago when I had my engine rebuilt I received the following advice from Amskeptic. I followed it to a "T" with great results. Note that this is what to do after the initial start-up / no-load break-in has been done.


If your engine has more than 5 but hopefully less than 20 miles, it is time to break in the rings.

You gently warm the engine up to operating temperatures by driving it within one minute of starting it, like the owner's manuals have been telling us all for a half century. Any engine wants to get warm quickly, these air-cooled engines particularly do. So get a load on it right away, but drive gently, no bazai rev runs.

Once it is warm (20 minutes), you need to apply good pressure to the rings so they will seat against the cylinder walls. If you are too gentle, the rings will not knock off the minor imperfections placed on the cylinder walls by honing. You want your rings and your cylinders to become good friends, and some serious contact is the way to do it.

So find a level quiet road and get up to 20-25 mph in 3rd gear. Now accelerate with just under full throttle to 45-50 mph, then release the accelerator and allow the engine to slow the car back down to 25-30 and repeat five times. Then drive normally for a couple of miles and repeat the whole shebang another five times at full throttle. This is no excuse to drive like a maniac, just ease on to full throttle on it ease off into your coastdown. When you accelerate, you let metal shed off the walls, coasting down in gear lets the engine rinse the metal flakes down into the sump. Heat is an issue with fresh rings, the friction is substantial, so we want to let your engine dissipate the generated heat with these coastdowns as well, the couple of miles of normal driving in the middle also helps. When you get home, change the oil right away. Let it drip for an hour even. Then refill and change the oil again in about 100 miles (you may be beyond this if you have already been driving it for a few days, but there is no such thing as changing it too frequently with a fresh rebuild).

Did you do the work? Are you proud?
Colin


Awesome to hear this from Colin. That is almost exactly what I did with my engine after I had read up on engine break ins (actually from a couple motorcycle websites). And I think my rings set in really well. Though it has only been about 800-900 miles.
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Bleyseng
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Restoring my 78 from the ground up Reply with quote

At first startup you need to breakin the cam! Running Break in oil, start it up and run it at 2000rpms for 15-20 minutes to "work harden" the cam lobes and lifters. No idle...just 2000 rpms.

Then do Colin's ring break in
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Restoring my 78 from the ground up Reply with quote

the ring break in is more to cause the rings to flex in their lands than to rub outwards. You don't want high RPM because the rings have a lot of drag when new, just full throttle and full deceleration also. The full throttle and full decel causes the rings to flex to their full travel in the ring lands. That helps them seal.

FWIW cams were never broken in back in the 70's and we had less trouble with them than now. However all cam manufacturers recommend it so best do it. One good thing about it is you change the oil at the end of the cam break in so lots of the misc particles from the first 20 minutes go away with that oil change. True break-in oil has no detergents so the particles settle out quickly rather than being carried around in the oil.
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Charlie57
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Restoring my 78 from the ground up Reply with quote

The break in is interesting, on my American V8 it was letting the engine run above idle for about 20 minutes.
Colin,
I had Brothers Machine build the engine/long block, I always try to do as much work as I can but the engine work I leave for people who know how to do it.

What about the transmission? We drove the bus maybe a mile before we parked it, the transmission worked fine. Should I just change out the clutch and not worry about the internal gears. I kind of think, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I don't want to spend the money if it's not needed. I've already replaced the axle bearings.

Charlie
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