Glowing alternator light tonight! Fixed!!!

[Tim Donahoe]

Rocker, I had to watch that video again to see what you were talking about.

Apparently, I was confused. My confused voltage drop test went like this: I made tiny holes in the wiring before each check point. For instance, just before the B+ wire entered the Ta connection bloc, I tested the small hole in the B+ wire, then compared this with my reading at the B+ post. If the numbers were the same, I figured there was no voltage drop from the B+ post up to the Ta junction. Then I tested the wire from Ta that goes to the battery to see if the voltage was the same as the wire entering from the other side of the Ta box. They were the same. After testing all wires coming to and from Ta, and getting the same readings, I assumed that all the connections, starting from the B+ at the alternator and continuing on through Ta were sound and losing no voltage.

In each test, I always attached the black lead of the multimeter to ground--usually the battery negative post. I did not touch it to the next connection in parallel. Apparently, I didn't do it correctly .

I also pulled the connections in Ta and they looked great. I put them back in and decided the alternator, which was putting out anywhere from 12.33 to 13.68 was the culprit.

I have since watched the video over again and see my mistake, but I still have trouble understanding why I got the same readings from connection to connection if the same amount of current were not passing through unobstructed.

Tim
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Richard O'Brien

[rockerarm]

[Tim Donahoe]

Okay, I got my new Bosch alternator. I had a few fan-rubbing issues because I didn't snug down the two fan-plate nuts tight enough. I got that sorted out, but when I went to hook up the B+ ring connector, it was too small. Apparently, Bosch has increased the size of the B+ post to 1/4 inch. Great. So I go out looking for some 8 gauge wire (6.63 mm) and none of the stores I've been to had any, so I bought some 10 awg gauge wire and connectors. Which leads me to a question.

The 10 awg gauge wire is not quite 6mm. It is 5.26 mm. But I only need the first few inches of this 5.26mm to butt into the OEM 6mm wire. Would this be a problem?

I'm aware that the further the run, the thicker the wire should be; but the "run" in this case is a mere 4 inches maximum, before it connects to the original 6mm wire. I wouldn't run a new 10 awg gauge wire for the entire length to the first (Ta) connector, but do you guys think the first few inches will cause issues?

If so, I have to get the 9 awg (supposedly they make this), or the 8 awg, connectors, etc. from an online source.

Any opinions?

P.s. The new Bosch alternator makes a slight whisper sound as I hand turn the pulley. The old one makes no whisper at all. Is this whisper the sound of new brushes, or did I buy a lemon?

Tim
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Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[VW_Jimbo]

10 gauge wire is fine.
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Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[Tim Donahoe]

Jimbo, thanks.

After commenting on this thread, I remembered I had asked that question on a separate thread. Some said to use 8awg, some said 10awg was okay. I have since put in a request to a local VW club, asking if anyone with an old harness, laying about if I can rob a foot (actually, I just need a few inches) of that B+ wire from them. If I get a reply on that, fine; if not, I'm going for the 10 awg and hope for the best.

What's your take on the whisper noise on my new alternator? Actually, when I hand spin the alternator, the sound is more like a mother softly shushing her child who's acting up in church. It's not a loud shush, just a very low-key shush. Since my old Bosch didn't make any noise at all when I compared the new one with it, it made me wonder if something was amiss. I was hoping that's just the sound of virgin brushes in the internal regulator section.

Thanks,

Tim
_________________
Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[VW_Jimbo]

I think an uncut, unspliced wire that was a gauge less in size would drop les voltage than one with a connector joining it to another wire. Connectors and connections drop voltage. Use a single wire, to get from point A to point B. Your Alternator will thank you and your battery too!

Not there, but it sounds like a properly segmented armature running new brushes to me! That is an awesome noise!
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Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[Tim Donahoe]

Thanks, Jimbo.

I have news, though. I moved a thing or two here and there, and I'll be able to use the original 6 mm wire, after all. I only cut off the first inch--including the old o-ring connector. The thing is, the new, bigger-o-ring connector (like they sell in auto stores) seems to be made of steel (I'm going to go out and put a magnet to it when I'm done with this post to see for sure). The old one was not exactly copper, but more like brass. I'd prefer a tinned copper, but finding one here is not exactly going to be easy.

Edit: the magnet says it's not steel. I sanded one of the connectors and found nice copper under the coating. Cool. It was so much thicker than the OEM connector, I suspected it was not tinned copper.

I also went out and gave the old Bosch a few spins. It actually does make a shush sound, too. Not nearly as perceptible as the new one, but it's there. So, I'm not going to sweat the new one with the louder shush. As the years roll by, my hearing keeps getting worse--so my wife tells me, that is. Maybe she's right.

Tim
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Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[andk5591]

The connector material is not that important. I buy bulk electrical connectors and almost all are not brass or whatever VW used. Have been using them for many years with no issue. One thing that I ALWAYS do is use external tooth washers on screw together electrical connections to make sure I have a good bite.

Oh one more thing....When messing with the alternator connections, don't let your wedding ring touch the hot wire and a ground. You would be surprised how fast a ring will get incredibly hot in that situation....Not that I have ever done that...
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D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
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Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[VW_Jimbo]

That's awesome!!! That saved you a lot of headaches!

Right there with you on the hearing! After growing up in a custom cabinet shop with planers, saws, jointer and routers. All of them making high pitch noise. Following that with 12 years of tuning cars, a lot of those night spent at the drag strip tuning a friends vw dragster, also high pitch noises! Add to that my love of hunting and going to the firing ranges. My hearing has suffered. I am okay with my left ear, maybe 70% of what it was 10 years ago, my right ear is at about 50%. I have noticed that I turn my left ear towards people when they talk to me. My kids pointed it out to me one day. Made me stop and start noticing.

Wish I could read lips!
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Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[Tim Donahoe]

Well, I got the new o-ring connector onto the OEM 9mm wire. Silly me, I forgot to put the shrink wrap on the wire before crimping the connector. Duh!

Now, all I have to do is wait until the wife gets home so she can hold the metal fuel line in the engine compartment while I push on the flexible fuel line from under the car.

Funny thing, though: I replaced the clutch driven disc because the old--relatively new one with no more than three thousand miles on it--had a little grease on it. Now, however, my freeplay went from 3/4 inch to 1 and 1/2 inch. Kind of strange, but I'll just adjust it. youd think replacing the new disc with the exact same brand disc with very little wear would not have required but a little, if any, re-adjustment.

Tim
_________________
Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[vamram]

Hey Tim - just caught up with your thread this morning. I don't have much advice, looking forward to reading about the e eventual fix. I'm learning lots about electrical troubleshooting from the great advice you've been getting!
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'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
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[Tim Donahoe]

All done! I installed a my new Bosch alternator from Cipi1 (great service from Chris there), and the number I got on the multimeter was 14.47. While there, I also replaced the transmission and battery ground straps with nice copper braided ones from Germany (I got those at Bughaus).

Since I had the motor out, I also replaced the flywheel seal, o-ring, clutch driven plate (the relatively new one had a little grease on it), installed a Hoover bit, painted the fan shroud, breast plate and firewall tins, adjusted the valves (easier when the motor is out, you know), installed new silicone valve cover gaskets from Wolfsburg West (one is leaking a little, but I'll keep checking, and change back to cork if needed), cleaned up a lot of wire connections, and that's about it.

A word of caution: the new Mexican Bosch alternators come with a larger B+ post; so, you'll have to replace the OEM o-ring connector at the wire. Fortunately, my original OEM 9mm wire was long enough so that I got away with crimping a new 1/4 inch o-ring connector to the original wire. And make sure your fan doesn't rub when you put the fan assembly back together. If the fan isn't true, or if you didn't snug down the two small nuts that hold the alternator to the fan assembly, you won't have the required 2mm space between the fan and the fan assembly, so it'll rub.

Okay, now I'm ready for the McCloud, California show at the end of the month.

Thanks to everyone who offered advice. I learned quite a bit of electrical troubleshooting information.

Tim
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Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[vamram]

Nice work, Tim! Definitely a great thread to follow. Pics would've been nice...!
_________________
Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!

'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!!

[rockerarm]

Hi. I'd be curious if you can detect any voltage drop/loss from the alt B+ stud to the battery's positive terminal, or post.

Even if you had a few tenth's of a volt drop your electrical system may not show any symptoms but as clean as your car is and how particular you are to the details it should concern you.

Simple test. DVOM on DC volt scale, 20v, meter positive to alt B+ stud and meter negative to battery positive post. Start car up and monitor the meter. You cn turn on some items such as headlights, 4-way's, etc in order to get the alt to push some current thru this wire.

Bill

[Tim Donahoe]

Rockerarm, it's difficult for me to do a complete test without the wife pressing on the gas pedal to get the Rpms to 1500-2000; but at idle I'm still missing .10 at the battery, compared to the B+ post. 14.47 down to 14.37. I'm happy with being over 14, but I'm going to find "the leak", because I'm curious.

With the lights and fan on high speed, this dropped a bit from the battery idle figure (I can't remember the figure right now, but it was also 14.something).

When the wife is here to step on the gas, I'll do a complete test at the higher Rpms. Besides, I spotted another issue.

In the meantime, one of those new silicone valve cover gaskets that I just installed is leaking on me. I put them in, using Permatex Aviation on the cover side (my Gascacinch, which I wanted to use, was dried up). But, I have the good cork gaskets to replace that pos with. Kind of scary since when I noticed the leak on the left side, and I had undone two nuts on the dog house oil cooler adapter to install a Hoover bit. But I don't think the oil is leaking from that event. After wiping the heat exchanger and under the rocker cover, it seemed more like a valve cover gasket issue. I've actually never had one leak like that before, though; but I've never used a silicone valve cover gasket, either.

But, I have no oil leaking from the bottom center of my engine case--where the transmission meets the engine. So, it looks like the new flywheel seal I also just put in is going to be a keeper.

Tim
_________________
Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[VW_Jimbo]

Great to read a good ending. Glad you were able to complete these tests and that you learned a thing or two in the process.

To check the voltmeter without the wife, you can always use the fast idle cam to hold the rpms up! I did that back before dual carbs!
_________________
Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[Frodge]

[Tim Donahoe]

Fridge, I made sure the oil drain-back passage was clear, before installing the flywheel seal. Plus, I only drove the car about ten miles. I'm sure I'll get at least a small drip as I put on some more mileage. Otherwise, I'm apt to burn out a seal. Probably, the white grease kept the small amount of oil from dripping. If I'm lucky, the new drip is the silicone valve cover gasket. If it's not, then my oil cooler adapter seals may have sprung a leak when I undid and re-tightened the nuts when installing the Hoover bit. If that's the case, I'm screwed. Engine out again . But I'll see tomorrow morning.

The hot, hot days are finally coming to a close. No more 100 degree+ days for awhile.

And Jimbo, I have good numbers but still have a small leak to find in the system. That .10 difference from the alternator, compared to the battery reading bugs me. I did notice some electrical tape on the main harnass in the engine compartment. Hopefully, the previous owner didn't splice something there. I'll use the fast idle cam tip to find out. Thanks.

Tim
_________________
Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[VW_Jimbo]

In the grand picture of the charging system a tenth of one volt between the alt and the batt is not a big deal. Divert your attention to sometime more deserving of your time. Go for a drive, adjust your brakes, adjust the clutch or car wash. Heck, come on over and wash my car!
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Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[allenw]

I do have an old wiring harness that I have been using the correct wire colors from if anyone needs some correct wire colors. i is about a third gone now.