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No oil getting to Rocker arm assembly
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cchris
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:51 pm    Post subject: No oil getting to Rocker arm assembly Reply with quote

Just rebuilt the motor and have about 15 miles of around town driving,trying to work out the bugs and get it dialed in Pulled off the valve covers to recheck the valves due to being noisy and they don't seem like they're getting oil to them they aren't completely dry they have a film of oil on them, but they're not as oiled as they should be I installed a oil pressure gauge it's reading 50+ psi cold and around 15- 17 psi at idle after driving it around and letting it idle for 20-30 minutes Checked and cleaned the pushrods when i installed them What am i missing? what could be a reason for not getting oil to the rocker arm assemblies?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:27 pm    Post subject: Re: No oil getting to Rocker arm assembly Reply with quote

1) what engine?

2) there isn't a lot of oil in the rocker boxes. there is usually enough to piss out on the heat exchanger to warrant a couple of paper towels to catch the drool. your rockers should be wet and shiny. and unless you done some high RPM runs, I am willing to bet the valve cover is dry-ish on the top. totally normal
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cchris
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:45 pm    Post subject: Re: No oil getting to Rocker arm assembly Reply with quote

It's a type 4 2.0 when i pulled the valve covers maybe 1 or 2 drops of oil dripped out On all my type 1 motors it'd make a mess pulling the covers there would be so much oil in there
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timvw7476
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:21 pm    Post subject: Re: No oil getting to Rocker arm assembly Reply with quote

just checked/adjusted my valves, 2.0 solid lifter.
dry as a bone would describe mine, but it sat all morning cold as a stone.
it was nice.
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asiab3
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:58 am    Post subject: Re: No oil getting to Rocker arm assembly Reply with quote

When did you clean the pushrods? Is this a new engine? I clean new-engine pushrods out after the first or second oil change. Assembly lube/grease can build up inside them and prohibit oil flow.

Engine oil level will affect rocker area spillage. Anything over the dipstick mark usually runs out of the left side of my Type 1 engines.

I once witnessed a Type 4 with BONE DRY rocker boxes after a few hundred miles on a fresh paint job. When we blew out the pushrods with carb cleaner and compressed air, bondo dust and paint dust sprayed all over our work area. After seeing breather systems disconnected, our diagnosis was a large quantity of dust clogging the oil filter and the rest of the particles settled in the oil/crankcase since the filter being bypassed.

Robbie
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Spike0180
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:25 am    Post subject: Re: No oil getting to Rocker arm assembly Reply with quote

asiab3 wrote:
When did you clean the pushrods? Is this a new engine? I clean new-engine pushrods out after the first or second oil change. Assembly lube/grease can build up inside them and prohibit oil flow.

Engine oil level will affect rocker area spillage. Anything over the dipstick mark usually runs out of the left side of my Type 1 engines.

I once witnessed a Type 4 with BONE DRY rocker boxes after a few hundred miles on a fresh paint job. When we blew out the pushrods with carb cleaner and compressed air, bondo dust and paint dust sprayed all over our work area. After seeing breather systems disconnected, our diagnosis was a large quantity of dust clogging the oil filter and the rest of the particles settled in the oil/crankcase since the filter being bypassed.

Robbie


Don't be dramatic Robbie. It didn't "Sprayed all over our work area". Half of them didn't seem to have anything in them even. But that doesn't bode well in this case, because that means the system is actually more likely to be easily plugged and restrict oil flow. I should finish the tear down of that engine to determine how bad the internal clogging is/was. Then we would all have an answer to how "Normal" dry valves covers are on type 4 engines.
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asiab3
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:09 am    Post subject: Re: No oil getting to Rocker arm assembly Reply with quote

Spike0180 wrote:
asiab3 wrote:
When did you clean the pushrods? Is this a new engine? I clean new-engine pushrods out after the first or second oil change. Assembly lube/grease can build up inside them and prohibit oil flow.

Engine oil level will affect rocker area spillage. Anything over the dipstick mark usually runs out of the left side of my Type 1 engines.

I once witnessed a Type 4 with BONE DRY rocker boxes after a few hundred miles on a fresh paint job. When we blew out the pushrods with carb cleaner and compressed air, bondo dust and paint dust sprayed all over our work area. After seeing breather systems disconnected, our diagnosis was a large quantity of dust clogging the oil filter and the rest of the particles settled in the oil/crankcase since the filter being bypassed.

Robbie


Don't be dramatic Robbie. It didn't "Sprayed all over our work area". Half of them didn't seem to have anything in them even. But that doesn't bode well in this case, because that means the system is actually more likely to be easily plugged and restrict oil flow. I should finish the tear down of that engine to determine how bad the internal clogging is/was. Then we would all have an answer to how "Normal" dry valves covers are on type 4 engines.


I think it would be cool to cut open the oil filter and look at the folds in the paper element. If you split the case, stick a carb cleaner straw down one of the dead end oil galleries and spray it back into a white paper towel and see what comes out. For Science!

Robbie
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3. 90% of problems are between the driver's seat and the steering wheel.
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Bleyseng
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:57 am    Post subject: Re: No oil getting to Rocker arm assembly Reply with quote

Years ago a test was done with clear valve covers on a type 4. They fill up half way with oil when the engine is hot and run (this was on a dyno). Dry valve covers and there is something wrong as hot oil flows out of the pushrods and can't drain fast enough back down into the case.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:39 pm    Post subject: Re: No oil getting to Rocker arm assembly Reply with quote

C'mon....that was an engine spinning at 8k with heavy mods.....
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gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: No oil getting to Rocker arm assembly Reply with quote

On a fully warmed up type 4 engine....in the time after shutdown when I am checking valve lash hot......in the time it takes to get out of the car on level ground, open the rear hatch with screwdriver already in hand.....drop down on either side and pop off the valve cover.......they are totally empty.

All parts will have a film of oil on them and there will be a fine bead of oil on the inner lower ledge of the head near the PR tube entrances.....and in a minute or two maybe 1/2 ounce or so oil oil pools in the valve cover laying on its back that has run off of all of the surfaces of the cover.

I rarely even get a drip.

Really....its no problem to simply run the engine with a valve cover off at idle fully warmed up....what you see is trickles of oil coming out from between rockers and stands and spacers and an occasional drop or two coming out of the pushrod cup and a slow ooze of oil at the swivel foot adjuster.

So far.....what you are seeing doea not strike me as abnormal.

Pull a valve cover while its idling. You can see what is not oiling. Ray
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cchris
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:49 pm    Post subject: Re: No oil getting to Rocker arm assembly Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for the help i pulled the valve covers off immediately after i shut it off and there was a little oil in there I believe the last time i opened it up i waited a while and it all drained back into the case I just remember my type 1 always had oil pouring out when i popped the covers off
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Amskeptic
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:06 pm    Post subject: Re: No oil getting to Rocker arm assembly Reply with quote

cchris wrote:
Thanks everyone for the help i pulled the valve covers off immediately after i shut it off and there was a little oil in there I believe the last time i opened it up i waited a while and it all drained back into the case I just remember my type 1 always had oil pouring out when i popped the covers off


Your best assessment of valve train lubrication will be to inspect the rocker shafts under the rockers. If you see galling, you have a lubrication problem. Yes, Type 4 engines do drain well at shut-off, but you really should see a thoroughly wet cylinder head/valve cover.

In the bad old air injection days (1973-74), these engines really did suffer from heat related lubrication problems in the heads where the oil would coke up the pushrod passages and the rocker arm drillings. I spritz with GumOut spray any time I am replacing push rod tube seals.
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vwible
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:28 am    Post subject: Re: No oil getting to Rocker arm assembly Reply with quote

My experience:
If the rocker arms were replaced, it's possible that the cosmoline coating that was on the new ones was not properly removed. Cosmoline, a brownish varnish-like rust protectant is what some new parts are dipped in. It filled the small oil passages on the new rockers I received.

Takes a bit of time in a solvent dip to get it out, and using a small drill bit held by hand only, to get it out of the passages.

You may be getting oil up the push rods, but not into the rockers themselves if the holes in the cups on the rockers are clogged.
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