Distributor Cap Clip and Bottom Plugs Question

[bluebug66]

One of my clips that hold the cap on will not stay in place in the mounting piece. Is there anyway to repair this? Also, can anyone tell me what the two plugs are for in the bottom of the distributor that have a special three pointed screw in them? I can see nothing inside the distributor that needs access from the holes and I have never seen a tool that would fit the screwed plugs. It is a 205K that I have disassembled to clean and lubricate. Thanks.

[hazetguy]

the clip will stay in place when it's clipped to a cap. you could gently peen in those little side areas when the arm is installed, but it's a crap design to begin with.

those are vents / spark & flame restrictors. they are not screwed in. they are a press fit. as long as air passes through them you're fine. spray some carb cleaner through them from the inside.
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[glutamodo]

You could probably make a clip retainer with a small nut bolt and some larger diameter washers. Like the middle example here, only with larger diameter washers (or cut out pieces of flat steel shaped to fit what's left of that flange)

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[Glenn]

On that model there's no real way to 'repair" it. There's not enough material to drill holes and insert a pin.

As Hazetguy said, just stick the clip into the body and snap it on the cap. There will be enough tension to hold the cap in place. The only difference is the clip will fall off when you remove he cap.

And those are ozone vents.
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[tasb]

Can't agree with Glenn on the above. I repair the bosses for the clips all the time by drilling a pair of holes and then insert a split pin to hold the clip in place. When the bosses (flange) is as eroded as that one in the pic I canibalise them for parts. Looks like the other side has enough "meat" to repair if it ever needed it.

The ozone vents can be removed from the body easily with a light tap from the proper sized punch. Typically this is not necessary.
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[diablosandwich]

What is the purpose of the ozone vents? Casey
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[Glenn]

Sorry Tim, but here's a picture that shows the difference between 2 different models.

A 205T is on the left and it can be repaired by drilling new holes and putting a pin in to hold the clip. On the right is a 205K and there's not really any "meat" where you can drill a hole for a pin.

They are two different models.

[Glenn]

[tasb]

There's as much variation on the bosses and erosion for the clips as there are people on the planet; you can't say one is a 113 T model and another is a 113 K in this case. The one I posted above is of a 111 S similar to a 111 N.

Here's a 0 231 137 009/ 113 905 205 K with plenty of meat on it for drilling a hole for repair, if needed. It looks the same as the 113 905 205 T in your above pic, Glenn. I've repaired a whole lot of 113 905 205 K's in this way.

Heck, there's even dimples for a drill bit pilot! There are two different designs of clips that were in use during the late 1960's/early 70's. I've looked at enough of these to know that there is no rhyme or reason to when one clip design was used over the other. The clip design has nothing to do with the mounting bosses.
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[tasb]

Here are the two cap clip designs, both of them are on 113 905 205 T's that are only a couple of months apart in production. The one on the right has a little pigtail on the end the one on the left does not.

the

Both of them have plenty of meat on the clip bosses. FWIW the type III distributors of this vintage have missing and eroded cap clip bosses far more frequently than the other models. I think it has something to do with the way the clip is pried on with the pancake engines.

Kinda reminds me of the early cast iron wire vs. spring cap clip debate for the 1950's distributors. Except this current issue is minutia.
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1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc

1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse

[lovethatconvertible]

[tasb]

No, not totally different just eroded. There were two different ways to peen or pinch the cap clips in use back then, but otherwise the same boss casting. In the last pic I posted you can clearly see the bosses are the same but the fixing method is different.
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1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc

1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse

[wcfvw69]

The 205K, M and T are so common, plentiful and inexpensive that I don't bother restoring them when I have a core that has issues like the OP's. I rob it for parts if they are good.

Ironically, my 67 bugs 205K distributor in my bug I restored a few years ago. One of the clips falls off like the OP's due to the same reason. Maybe I should actually restore and keep another 67 205K without clip securing issues on the body.
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[tasb]

Bill, you can PM me if you would like another 113 905 205 K core with good bosses to work with. I have over 200 cores of the 113 905 205 K, M,T to sort through and here is what I have found- learned something new today! as mentioned by Jon (hazetguy) above, the design is not superior thinking.

On 113 905 205 K's the boss was peen pinched across the top on some. These are highly prone to erosion and clips coming loose. Depending upon how badly eroded the boss is the area can/cannot be repaired. Other 113 K's were peened in the sides of the boss. These seem less prone to erosion of the aluminum and just as above depending upon how badly they are eroded can/cannot be repaired.

Even the side peened bosses can erode if abused.

I have a smaller number of 113 905 205 M cores. They all appear to be peened in the sides of the boss. Depending upon how badly they are eroded can/cannot be repaired.

My 113 905 205 T cores have two fixing approaches. The units with the pigtail at the end of the clip are peened across the top similar to the (early?) 113 K's but the indentation is not as deep and wider. The remaining 113 T's are fixed with the sides being peened like the earlier distributors. These have clips that lack the pigtail. Pics to follow tomorrow. It's getting late.
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1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse

[wcfvw69]

[glutamodo]

I still think that what was shown in the original poster's photo, that distributor still had enough "meat" left for what I suggested. If I owned it, I would have already attempted to do what I said.

Not that it really matters that much, this is mostly a "convenience" thing.
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IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox.

[wcfvw69]

[Glenn]

[bluebug66]

Thanks all for the education. I would never had guessed that the plugs in the bottom were for ventilation to prevent ozone accumulation. It does seem like it is an overly complicated part to achieve this purpose. The design of the clip retainer boss is not up to par with the typical German design. It looks like it was not designed for a long life since it uses a peened edge to retain the clip. Apparently this design was improved later on. It is true that the clip is held in place even when this boss is worn or broken but the problem I have with it is that it is on the side closest to the fuel pump and when the clip fails off it is sometimes hard to find it to put it back on and the space is tight on that side...Steve

[tasb]

Not real sure what the swap market is like in Tennessee, I used to run old VW's back and forth between Grand Rapids, MI and Florence AL using Tennessee backroads bootlegger style in the late 70's early 80's. As stated above finding a better core to work with shouldn't be too problematic.
_________________
Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018

1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc

1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse