Author |
Message |
allsidius Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2010 Posts: 1475 Location: Norway
|
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:58 am Post subject: Re: Which one is the proper NSU type 32? |
|
|
Never finished this discussion, what car is this? Any new info on it? Does everybody agree on it being a second Drauz car?
allsidius wrote: |
Could this be the third car?
Comparing to the Reutter all-steel car, this looks much more similar in my view. I found it on a page that discussed the origins without offering too much new info except this picture.
The fenders look much more consistent to the blue Reutter prototype, the rear sides have no air inlets (but semaphores instead). If anyone knows any detail, please chime in!
|
_________________ 1973 1303S w sunroof Click to view image
1978 1303 convertible (sold)Click to view image
1966 1300 RIPClick to view image
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Tanoki Samba Member
Joined: September 27, 2010 Posts: 88 Location: The Netherlands
|
Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:36 am Post subject: Re: Which one is the proper NSU type 32? |
|
|
allsidius wrote: |
Never finished this discussion, what car is this? Any new info on it? Does everybody agree on it being a second Drauz car?
allsidius wrote: |
Could this be the third car?
Comparing to the Reutter all-steel car, this looks much more similar in my view. I found it on a page that discussed the origins without offering too much new info except this picture.
The fenders look much more consistent to the blue Reutter prototype, the rear sides have no air inlets (but semaphores instead). If anyone knows any detail, please chime in!
|
|
Is it possible that it is an prototype for an other car manufacturer?
Or Maybe one of the Zundapp type 12 prototypes? I have heard there were more than one prototypes build for Zundapp.
Btw, great threat! Wish it was over 100 pages long and i could keep on reading.. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
allsidius Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2010 Posts: 1475 Location: Norway
|
Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Which one is the proper NSU type 32? |
|
|
Tanoki wrote: |
allsidius wrote: |
Never finished this discussion, what car is this? Any new info on it? Does everybody agree on it being a second Drauz car?
allsidius wrote: |
Could this be the third car?
Comparing to the Reutter all-steel car, this looks much more similar in my view. I found it on a page that discussed the origins without offering too much new info except this picture.
The fenders look much more consistent to the blue Reutter prototype, the rear sides have no air inlets (but semaphores instead). If anyone knows any detail, please chime in!
|
|
Is it possible that it is an prototype for an other car manufacturer?
Or Maybe one of the Zundapp type 12 prototypes? I have heard there were more than one prototypes build for Zundapp.
Btw, great threat! Wish it was over 100 pages long and i could keep on reading.. |
I agree, this turned out a great thread that unearthed a few rare photos! My favorite is the Drauz "dirty" car, frontal view, that I have never seen before. Such a clean design, remember, built in-headlights were 5-10 years or even more into the future for other car companies, DB only started that in 1950 with the 220. As late as 1955, both DB and Ford had free-standing lights on their cheaper models!
Front pic of this familiar setting..
As for your theory on the car above, I do not think it is a Zundapp. Those three cars were pretty crude, made from plywood and without advanced bucks or jigs, this seems to be a much more sophisticated car, well made and bigger too. My personal theory is that it is the Weinsberg car, photographed outside the Drauz works, but to each their own. Let's hope someone shows up with credible evidence to one end or the other. _________________ 1973 1303S w sunroof Click to view image
1978 1303 convertible (sold)Click to view image
1966 1300 RIPClick to view image
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
allsidius Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2010 Posts: 1475 Location: Norway
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
kdf38 Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 896
|
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: Which one is the proper NSU type 32? |
|
|
Porsche Epic, Volume One: 1875-1948 /
L'épopée Porsche : Porsche Epic. Tome 1, 1875-1948
allsidius wrote: |
Anyone recognize this french VW book? The link on google doesn't work, so I am unable to follow it to find out, but those two pictures is shown in some french VW book.
Does anyone recognize this? I am looking for the book to get a better picture of the frontal view of the Porsche Typ 32 |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
allsidius Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2010 Posts: 1475 Location: Norway
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
allsidius Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2010 Posts: 1475 Location: Norway
|
Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:36 am Post subject: Re: Which one is the proper NSU type 32? |
|
|
NOTE: All those who are bored with this discussion is asked to scroll down to the next topic!
That tip yielded some very useful information!
The book is of course ridiculously overpriced on Amazon, but the presentation offered a reasonable shot of what we were looking for, the page on the typ 32. In the book it is stated that Reutter made two mixed wood and steel cars, and that Drauz made the all-steel car. I think in view of the previous discussion, that the author may have mixed the Drauz car and the mystery car. Looking at the design of the mystery car (somewhat similar to the Weinsberg drawing), it is much more similar to the existing prototype, by several sources built by Drauz.
I think it is safe to say, the dirty car and the mystery car was not made by the same coachbuilder. It is much more probable that the mystery car and the existing prototype were made by the same company. That, and the fact that the mystery car is photographed outside Drauz works, leads me to speculate that..
The dirty car in mixed construction, looking a lot like the Porsche drawings, was made by Reutter in Stuttgart. It is photographed outside the Porsche works, across the street from Reutter.
The two remaining cars, the mystery car and the still existing prototype were both made by Drauz, which lay much closer to NSU works. The design is much less similar to the sleek Porsche drawings, ie much less Komenda input.
Both pics from the amazon presentation of the book Porsche Epic, Volume One: 1875-1948 in the sake of VW archaeology.
The mystery car, photographed outside the Drauz works: _________________ 1973 1303S w sunroof Click to view image
1978 1303 convertible (sold)Click to view image
1966 1300 RIPClick to view image
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Last edited by allsidius on Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
allsidius Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2010 Posts: 1475 Location: Norway
|
Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:59 am Post subject: Re: Which one is the proper NSU type 32? |
|
|
My last post is in line with this post by IIIA-0426, which also confirms the dirty car was made by Reutter and the existing car was made by Drauz. The mystery car is not mentioned.
IIIA-0426 wrote: |
I have been studying the Type 32 on and off for over 15 years and have amassed a fair amount of documentation, photos and plans - although one can never have enough. I also have a very nice copy of the Weinsberg drawing.
The general consensus of which bodywork company built which body, according to the "experts", is largely based on a letter that was written on 12 January, 1957, by Karl Rabe to Fritz von Falkenhayn. The letter was written on the occasion of the anniversary of the Reutter company.
In the letter the key dates of the Type 32 project are mentioned, and Karl Rabe writes:
"Nach meinen Aufzeichnungen war die Karosserie bei der Firma Reutter mit Blech-Holz-Grundaufbau und Kunstlederbezug ausgeführt, während Drauz eine Ganzstalhblech-Ausfuehrung mit aussenliegenden Scheinwerfen lieferte." The letter makes no mention of Weinsberg.
The first contact with Drauz was made on 6th April 1934 and Reutter followed shortly thereafter.
The Weinsberg drawing was dated earlier (29 November 1933) but interestingly makes direct reference to NSU, rather than to a specific Porsche project. This and the fact that Weinsberg are not mentioned in the Rabe letter may suggest that they were commissioned directly by NSU. |
_________________ 1973 1303S w sunroof Click to view image
1978 1303 convertible (sold)Click to view image
1966 1300 RIPClick to view image
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
GArBa Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2014 Posts: 2103 Location: Milano, Italy
|
Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:50 am Post subject: Re: Which one is the proper NSU type 32? |
|
|
very interesting. I didn't expect the exixting car to be not Reutter's as given its more modern construction, I'd always tought that would have been the more posche-involved one. However, evidence seems to point to your theory as being the more correct one. _________________ cars:
'97 type 1 1600i
'14 type AA Seat Mii (sadly dead after 270.000 km)
'22 type C1 T-Cross
'23 type AC3 Hyundai I10 (VW no longer makes small cars!)
-------------------------
moped:
'82 Benelli Magnum 3v |
|
Back to top |
|
|
allsidius Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2010 Posts: 1475 Location: Norway
|
Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:19 am Post subject: Re: Which one is the proper NSU type 32? |
|
|
GArBa wrote: |
very interesting. I didn't expect the exixting car to be not Reutter's as given its more modern construction, I'd always tought that would have been the more posche-involved one. However, evidence seems to point to your theory as being the more correct one. |
I know, and I have probably reiterated the theory that the existing car is made by Reutters earlier in this post - from the fact that they were making all steel bodies for wanderer and others already and that they hand made several of the all-steel VW bodies, mainly the V303 and the VW38 series. However, various sources claim they were skilled in the mixed material technique, probably applied for one-offs mostly. This technique is famously applied in the DKW meisterklasse even after WWII. So I think it is most likely we should listen to Carl Rabe and accept that the existing all-metal car is made by Drauz. The dirty car was then made by Reutters (as stated by Rabe).
This leaves the mystery car, which either is the Weinsberg, or, since it is photographed outside the Drauz works, is the second Drauz car. Now all we need is a frontal picture of it! _________________ 1973 1303S w sunroof Click to view image
1978 1303 convertible (sold)Click to view image
1966 1300 RIPClick to view image
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Last edited by allsidius on Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
IIIA-0426 Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2009 Posts: 229 Location: Feuerbacherweg 48-50
|
Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: Which one is the proper NSU type 32? |
|
|
I am still working on a lead that will hopefully clarify all questions.
_________________ 1971 Alfa Romeo Giulia Super |
|
Back to top |
|
|
allsidius Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2010 Posts: 1475 Location: Norway
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
allsidius Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2010 Posts: 1475 Location: Norway
|
Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:00 am Post subject: Re: Which one is the proper NSU type 32? |
|
|
From one of the gurus in the field of VW prototype archaelogy, I have received this amazing photo of the Reutter NSU type 32, the "dirty car", unfortunately watermarked, but nevertheless. The people studying the car is most probably Porsche employees, I recognize Erwin Komenda to the far left, next to him, seen en face is most probably Karl Rabe. Others will surely identify the rest. It seems that the car has just arrived from testing, and the whole Porsche Büro is exited to see it in the flesh. The existence of this photo seems to indicate that the Reutter car was photographed by a professional, which to me says there are other and better pictures lying in a drawer somewhere. Maybe at the Porsche archives.
Look at that profile! 85 years on, still going strong!
_________________ 1973 1303S w sunroof Click to view image
1978 1303 convertible (sold)Click to view image
1966 1300 RIPClick to view image
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mb Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2003 Posts: 237 Location: Nuremberg - hometown of the 1931/-32 Volkswagen Porsche Type 12
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
IIIA-0426 Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2009 Posts: 229 Location: Feuerbacherweg 48-50
|
Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: Which one is the proper NSU type 32? |
|
|
Interesting batch of photos that were sold at auction earlier this year... a reunion that took place at the Reutter coachworks.
_________________ 1971 Alfa Romeo Giulia Super |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Blue Baron VW Aficionado
Joined: June 16, 2006 Posts: 23750 Location: Southeast USA
|
Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:08 pm Post subject: Re: Which one is the proper NSU type 32? |
|
|
allsidius wrote: |
From one of the gurus in the field of VW prototype archaelogy, I have received this amazing photo of the Reutter NSU type 32, the "dirty car", unfortunately watermarked, but nevertheless. |
A little Blue Baron magic will fix that.
_________________ We are striving for perfection, to make our cars run forever, if possible.
Heinz Nordhoff |
|
Back to top |
|
|
allsidius Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2010 Posts: 1475 Location: Norway
|
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:15 am Post subject: Re: Which one is the proper NSU type 32? |
|
|
IIIA-0426 wrote: |
Interesting batch of photos that were sold at auction earlier this year... a reunion that took place at the Reutter coachworks.
|
This was in the fifties, one must assume that a lot of the workers from 1934 were still there, and would have objected if this car was not built there. I guess this confirms that this car is definetely Reutters built. But God, are those headlight implants ugly. What a pity they didn't ditch them back then and went to the breakers for some MB 170 headlights.
_________________ 1973 1303S w sunroof Click to view image
1978 1303 convertible (sold)Click to view image
1966 1300 RIPClick to view image
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
allsidius Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2010 Posts: 1475 Location: Norway
|
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:27 am Post subject: Re: Which one is the proper NSU type 32? |
|
|
Amazingly, another pic of what seems to be the elusive "Dirty" NSU type 32 appeared today in Undis' amazing V1/2/3 thread. To avoid cluttering his thread with my rantings once again, I am adding it where it belongs.
The Dirty car was not always dirty, here it is seen inside the Porsche Garage / Workshop in 1935 while the Porsche team was in full swing with the volkswagen V1-V3 prototypes. Which makes the fourth known picture of this particularly Porscheesque car.
Reading up on the thread above, one is hard put to decide which company made this car, it seems clear that the type 32 that still exists was built by Reutter, from the reunion of that car with the Reutter works post-war. Drauz seems most likely, but I still am in the dark unfortunately.
Blue Baron wrote: |
allsidius wrote: |
From one of the gurus in the field of VW prototype archaelogy, I have received this amazing photo of the Reutter NSU type 32, the "dirty car", unfortunately watermarked, but nevertheless. |
A little Blue Baron magic will fix that.
|
For newcomers, I include the amazing frontal quarter shot of the "dirty car" outside the Porsche büro. Any better scans of this or other pics are very much appreciated.
_________________ 1973 1303S w sunroof Click to view image
1978 1303 convertible (sold)Click to view image
1966 1300 RIPClick to view image
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Undis Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2006 Posts: 1396 Location: Riga, Latvia & Sydney, Australia
|
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:38 pm Post subject: Re: Which one is the proper NSU type 32? |
|
|
allsidius wrote: |
Amazingly, another pic of what seems to be the elusive "Dirty" NSU type 32 appeared today in Undis' amazing V1/2/3 thread. To avoid cluttering his thread with my rantings once again, I am adding it where it belongs.
|
This photo is important as it gives a small insight in what the dashboard looked like. I seem to spot a glove box lid on the right but what is that angular thing in the middle? Could it be a radio? The car appears to have an antenna in the other photo. If that is the case the dash may have looked somewhat like that of the VW38. _________________ Check out my Facebook page: Volkswagen Prototypes. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
finster Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2012 Posts: 7839 Location: north o' the border
|
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:09 am Post subject: Re: Which one is the proper NSU type 32? |
|
|
^^ looks more like the type 32 dash to me
_________________ "we're here on Earth to fart around" kurt vonnegut
nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|