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Navy_Flyer
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2012
Posts: 474
Location: Charlottesville, VA
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 Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:58 am Post subject: Fuel line clamps - check them! |
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Just a friendly reminder any time you're "under the bonnet"...
I changed my fuel lines when I bought the van a few years ago to the new type of fuel lines. From the gas tank to the engine and back. Every one. Removed the plastic firewall piece too. I used all new fuel injected type fuel line clamps from NAPA. Good quality that do not 'bite' into the hose. The last time I did anything with the fuel lines was when I bought new injectors and installed them a year or so ago.
The other day I was doing my routine "pre-flight" in the engine bay prior to a weekend trip. I opened up the engine bay, went to the cockpit and started it up, and went back to check on everything to ensure everything was as it should be, when I noticed a pretty good 'drip, drip. drip' of fuel from the T-connector near the distributor that provides a place to pick off for a fuel pressure gauge. Was putting raw fuel onto the crankcase. I immediately turned off the ignition. I thought I had a crack or a leak in the fuel hose. Nope. the three clamps had loosened enough to allow fuel past them when pressurized. I have no idea how long that's been going on, but I am one lucky SOB that I haven't had a fire. I checked every other clamp, and they were all tight. Just these on the fuel T-fitting were loose. I've not touched them or had occasion to touch them since I installed them. Anyone know of quality fuel line clamps getting loose over time with vibration, and is the location of the clamps any reason they specifically would get loose?
I've cogitated over this for a few days. There is no way I didn't tighten them down when I installed them. I surely would have noticed the leak long ago had that been the case. But, it is possible. I guess.
Anyway - catastrophe averted, and posting this to possibly help and prevent a catastrophe with anyone else. Takes literally 5 minutes to check the integrity of your clamps with a screwdriver. Go do it now....
_________________
1987 Westfalia, Automatic. EJ25 VANARU Conversion
Last edited by Navy_Flyer on Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6545
Location: Westfalia, Earth
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel line clamps - check them! |
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EXCELLENT, Thanks!!!
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32608
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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bobbyblack 
Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015
Posts: 4349
Location: United States, Iowa
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel line clamps - check them! |
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The clamps don't necessarily need to "loosen" for the effect you experienced to happen. I took the advice of everyone here on changing out the lines and changing over to clamps that don't slice that line. Did a nice job, and followed the instructions to re-tightened them after they "settled" (100 miles or something like that). The issue, for me, kept cropping up a number of times. This is a big concern, as I am very frightened of a fire. I also posted here on what was going on, only to find out it is way more common than I thought for the clamps to need to be tightened more from time to time.
One solution that I have seen twice now, other than when I decided to double up my clamps, others have said they too had put two clamps on the ends, one next to the other. This has stopped my issues now for the last 3000 miles. I do keep looking, very often, and hope to not see any such leaks again. I also DO give each clamp a twist tighter every thousand or so, and nearly every time, I do find I can easily tighten some.
Its just that the hoses shrink a little over their lifetime. Its a heat/cool cycle thing, I believe. That is one reason I do not use the single time crimp type clamp.
_________________
'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
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SCM
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 3116
Location: Bozeman MT
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel line clamps - check them! |
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| bobbyblack wrote: |
| That is one reason I do not use the single time crimp type clamp. |
My understanding was that the crimp type (Oetiker) clamps, are made of spring steel that maintains proper tension to allow the hoses to shrink/swell without getting leaks. Is that not true*?
* This is also my understanding of why the coolant system uses spring clamps although I do still get a coolant leak during extreme cold from a junction that uses one of those.
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'91 Westfalia GL Automatic (GTA "Turbo" Rebuild w/Peloquin) and 2.3L GoWesty Engine |
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bobbyblack
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Joined: May 21, 2015
Posts: 4349
Location: United States, Iowa
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel line clamps - check them! |
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SCM,
No idea what kind of steel those are made of, but if experience would hold true, clamping something with a spring from a bigger loop to a smaller one would be ill advised. The spring steel I know for sure to be in use is on clamps that you pinch the tips together to loosen, and on release they pull tighter around the hose.
On the fuel line clamps, they are slipped over the hose prior to hose attachment, the ear is grabbed with the special tool and you squeeze the handle together until it the tool pops or croaks, or whatever the action is of that particular tool. If that clamp was a spring, then it would spring toward opening up, rather than clamping down. After that, I don't think snabbing the ear again will make it tighter, unless there is a different setting on the tool itself to change the gap it sets to. Anyway, I don't know about others' experiences on these kind, just what I have experienced. AND the tool is plenty of cash to toss over only to find its limitations afterwards.
_________________
'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32608
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50340
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:07 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel line clamps - check them! |
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I have had screw type fuel line clamps loosen repeatedly. Spraying them with cleaner and giving them a dab of Loctite fixed the issue.
With no more pressure than these systems run, I would think a quality flat style spring clamp would work well. I have used them in many places and they have always done the job, but I never actually tried them on FI fuel hoses. The clamp of course needs to be a good fit for the hose. |
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Mellow Yellow 74
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Joined: October 14, 2014
Posts: 1615
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:18 am Post subject: Re: Fuel line clamps - check them! |
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| Navy_Flyer wrote: |
| Anyone know of quality fuel line clamps getting loose over time with vibration |
Yes, I installed ABA stainless clamps and they are supposedly good quality but I still need to tighten them every couple of months because they do come loose.
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1962 Karmann Ghia
1974 Deluxe Microbus
1985 Caravelle (Vanagon) |
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cmayna
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Joined: August 18, 2014
Posts: 1147
Location: SF Bay area, CA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:52 am Post subject: Re: Fuel line clamps - check them! |
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And here I'm getting ready to put 1200 miles on the white turd. Better check the hose clamps.
_________________
'90 Westy / automatic.
If I'm not working on the camper or my '50 Chebbie truck, I'm either fishing with the wife or smoking Salmon.
Craig |
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Butcher
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Joined: December 05, 2015
Posts: 1285
Location: Right Here
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:17 am Post subject: Re: Fuel line clamps - check them! |
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As a technician, I've heard the story that 'I tightened all the clamps' but when a hose pops off/leaks, it's obvious that they were all not properly tighten.
That said, if the clamps were tighten and magically got loose, is it possible that the clamping surfaces reduced in size? As in the hose rubber or possibly the tee. I do not know what the tee is made of but if it's starting to collapse, that is one reason there would be less tension.
I too prefer ABA clamps on fuel hoses and only wish I could find them for larger coolant hoses. I've never had one fail or come loose. |
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E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6545
Location: Westfalia, Earth
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:20 am Post subject: Re: Fuel line clamps - check them! |
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What are ABA clamps, the "rabbit-earred" type?
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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jfu057
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Joined: July 12, 2012
Posts: 96
Location: Greensboro
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:35 am Post subject: Re: Fuel line clamps - check them! |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| The clamp of course needs to be a good fit for the hose. |
This is very important... guess how I know. May not be the worst thing I've done to my van, but surely the dumbest/scariest. Luckily I caught it while doing something else in there. Don't trust am***n algos to choose your parts. |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32608
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Navy_Flyer
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2012
Posts: 474
Location: Charlottesville, VA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel line clamps - check them! |
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| Butcher wrote: |
As a technician, I've heard the story that 'I tightened all the clamps' but when a hose pops off/leaks, it's obvious that they were all not properly tighten.
That said, if the clamps were tighten and magically got loose, is it possible that the clamping surfaces reduced in size? As in the hose rubber or possibly the tee. I do not know what the tee is made of but if it's starting to collapse, that is one reason there would be less tension.
I too prefer ABA clamps on fuel hoses and only wish I could find them for larger coolant hoses. I've never had one fail or come loose. |
The Fuel-T appears to be steel (or thick-walled aluminum - I didn't put a magnet on it to check). It didn't collapse. The hose could have expanded/contracted over time causing the clamps to loosen I suppose, but none of the others around the bay and back to the fuel tank were loose. Bottom line from reading everyone's comments, these clamps do seem to loosen over time, so it's on my checklist for every oil change or engine service to check them.
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1987 Westfalia, Automatic. EJ25 VANARU Conversion |
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cmayna
Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2014
Posts: 1147
Location: SF Bay area, CA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel line clamps - check them! |
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Though I did not find a clamp that was really loose, having your thread appear, reminded me to check my clamps before we put on 1200 miles, so today I spent the afternoon going over each clamp. Thanks for posting this thread. It was a great reminder.
Craig
_________________
'90 Westy / automatic.
If I'm not working on the camper or my '50 Chebbie truck, I'm either fishing with the wife or smoking Salmon.
Craig |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32608
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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tech032
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2017
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel line clamps - check them! |
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| Navy_Flyer wrote: |
Just a friendly reminder any time you're "under the bonnet"...
I changed my fuel lines when I bought the van a few years ago to the new type of fuel lines. From the gas tank to the engine and back. Every one. Removed the plastic firewall piece too. I used all new fuel injected type fuel line clamps from NAPA. Good quality that do not 'bite' into the hose. The last time I did anything with the fuel lines was when I bought new injectors and installed them a year or so ago.
The other day I was doing my routine "pre-flight" in the engine bay prior to a weekend trip. I opened up the engine bay, went to the cockpit and started it up, and went back to check on everything to ensure everything was as it should be, when I noticed a pretty good 'drip, drip. drip' of fuel from the T-connector near the distributor that provides a place to pick off for a fuel pressure gauge. Was putting raw fuel onto the crankcase. I immediately turned off the ignition. I thought I had a crack or a leak in the fuel hose. Nope. the three clamps had loosened enough to allow fuel past them when pressurized. I have no idea how long that's been going on, but I am one lucky SOB that I haven't had a fire. I checked every other clamp, and they were all tight. Just these on the fuel T-fitting were loose. I've not touched them or had occasion to touch them since I installed them. Anyone know of quality fuel line clamps getting loose over time with vibration, and is the location of the clamps any reason they specifically would get loose?
I've cogitated over this for a few days. There is no way I didn't tighten them down when I installed them. I surely would have noticed the leak long ago had that been the case. But, it is possible. I guess.
Anyway - catastrophe averted, and posting this to possibly help and prevent a catastrophe with anyone else. Takes literally 5 minutes to check the integrity of your clamps with a screwdriver. Go do it now.... |
Always a great idea to check the clamps from time to time. I also have the ABA FI clamps, and after about 100 miles,they need a bit of retorque. I think the ultimate fix is blue loctite during installation, OR, a tiny dab of this paint at the hex nut to the clamp. It works great to prevent loosening on a low torque item like this, even though it was designed to indicate tamper. We use this all day long in the shop for customer drain plugs, bolts,etc. Just a tiny dab at the junction where they meet.
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amwaj
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Joined: February 18, 2017
Posts: 68
Location: the desert
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:36 am Post subject: Re: Fuel line clamps - check them! |
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also an aviator, and also in the habit of doing a preflight on mine...open the engine compartment hatch, inspect, start engine inspect...saved myself grief more than once doing this..
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the best way to make a small fortune in life, is to start with a big one, and become afflicted with Vanagon-itis |
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Abscate
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Posts: 22653
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:25 am Post subject: Re: Fuel line clamps - check them! |
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| Navy_Flyer wrote: |
Just a friendly reminder any time you're "under the bonnet"...
I changed my fuel lines when I bought the van a few years ago to the new type of fuel lines. From the gas tank to the engine and back. Every one. Removed the plastic firewall piece too. I used all new fuel injected type fuel line clamps from NAPA. Good quality that do not 'bite' into the hose. The last time I did anything with the fuel lines was when I bought new injectors and installed them a year or so ago.
The other day I was doing my routine "pre-flight" in the engine bay prior to a weekend trip. I opened up the engine bay, went to the cockpit and started it up, and went back to check on everything to ensure everything was as it should be, when I noticed a pretty good 'drip, drip. drip' of fuel from the T-connector near the distributor that provides a place to pick off for a fuel pressure gauge. Was putting raw fuel onto the crankcase. I immediately turned off the ignition. I thought I had a crack or a leak in the fuel hose. Nope. the three clamps had loosened enough to allow fuel past them when pressurized. I have no idea how long that's been going on, but I am one lucky SOB that I haven't had a fire. I checked every other clamp, and they were all tight. Just these on the fuel T-fitting were loose. I've not touched them or had occasion to touch them since I installed them. Anyone know of quality fuel line clamps getting loose over time with vibration, and is the location of the clamps any reason they specifically would get loose?
I've cogitated over this for a few days. There is no way I didn't tighten them down when I installed them. I surely would have noticed the leak long ago had that been the case. But, it is possible. I guess.
Anyway - catastrophe averted, and posting this to possibly help and prevent a catastrophe with anyone else. Takes literally 5 minutes to check the integrity of your clamps with a screwdriver. Go do it now.... |
That's a bolter....funny how having to land on a postage stamp changes your life forever....TFS
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