Oval Window Motor Question

[JoePolo]

Just picked up my Oval Window I just purchased from my friend in the military, sold my 63 witha DP 1600 in it. Was running the numbers on the Oval trying to make sure all is correct, and stumbling on the engine. It has what looks like a riveted tag over the location of the stock number stamping. Any ideas on what it is? I assume it a rebuild tag? I'm kinda bummed cause car is original black with original pan, and then this motor. Car is not original condition but like the idea of having the right stuff. Any info is appreciated.

[Rome]

Yes, that would be a local rebuilder's tag riveted on. The numbers don't seem to correlate with any factory engine numbers, by examining the reference chart here (select "Type 1" at the top)- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/bugchassisdating.php

Your engine is not a 36hp because it has the separate, bolt-on generator stand which started on the 40hp 1200's as of the '61 model year. But 40hp engine cases do not have those many horizontal ribs under the generator stand; they are smooth there. Those ribs started mostly with the 1600 dual-port engine. If you can take a larger photo of the entire engine (use the camera flash to lighten the shot) we can quickly identify if you have a single-port, or dual-port engine.

Looks like you have a solid oval.

[JoePolo]

Wow great info good to know. Disappointing. I will take that photo for you tomorrow. I found out from the previous owner today the local shop decided that when he "seized" the 1957 Motor that he would not rebuild it and would swap it and then did not ask for the original motor to keep. But still very curious to know what this engine is. I'm also going to call the shop that installed it and ask them for any records they may have on this car. Really appreciate the reply I'm sure you'll all be hearing much from me. Definitely not new to cars but DEFINITELY new to VWs my 63 was my first one, learned some about VW working on that one. But I know the knowledge of the Samba guys is second to none.

[60ragtop]

Engine was rebuilt by VEGE/ATK at one time.
Some more threads on it,
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php?searc..._chars=200
_________________
Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986

[JoePolo]

Here's the pictures lemme know if you need something else. Thanks.

[RareAir]

You've got a dual port motor. The ribbed lines on the side of the case (below the gen/alt stand) signifies a dual relief case.
_________________
1947 Typ 11a
1954 Typ 117
1956 Typ 151
1959 Typ 117
1959 Typ 265
1961 356B
1966 Typ 151
1966 Typ 241

[JoePolo]

[txoval]

Search the classifieds on this site, there are usually a few 36hp cases. 56-57 are not rare. A 57 engine case will probably run $150-300

A rebuilt split-case transaxle is $2000, found in classifieds as well

You can buy a rebuilt 36hp engine (Check out Mr. Okrasa on this site) for $4-5k

[Rome]

JoePolo- as to the transmission, it is "possible" that the original one is still in the car. Easy way to tell- when you are driving very slowly, like a slow walking speed in 2nd gear, and try to downshift into 1st, does the transmission grind? If so, come to a full stop and shift into 1st. Transmissions from '60 and earlier have a non-synchronized 1st gear so that you either need to double-clutch, or come to a full stop to avoid the grinding. A trans from '61 thru 66 has a fully synchro'd 1st gear and have nearly the same final drive ratio as an oval's. If such a later trans is in good shape you'll be able to shift into 1st at slow speeds without any grinding. A '67 or '68 transmission has a different final drive ratio which is much more suited for your larger dual-port engine; the engine will rev several hundred revs lower at highway speeds than with a '66 or earlier trans. Note that I'm talking only about the transmission, not the axles themselves which attach to the trans separately. That is, you can install a '67/'68 swingaxle transmission onto the original axles from your car.

Another quick indicator as to the transmission era is to view the type of coupler from the back end of the shift rod inside the tunnel that connects to the front of the transmission. Directly to the rear of your VIN on the tunnel you;ll see a football-shaped metal cover that is attached with 1 or 2 screws. Unscrew it and look at the coupler. A later type for a '67/'68 trans is "rectangular" shaped on both sides. The original style is round.

Point is, that if you have an original transmission you won't need to expend the money to buy an oval-era one if you really want to go back to a 36hp engine. I also recommend for "you" to buy a complete 36hp engine that has been rebuilt, rather than piece one together from all the many parts.

[JoePolo]

Thanks I will check all of this out and report back. It sad thing is the engine was there and the previous owner just forgot to ask for it back. I'm 90% sure they swapped the trans I was flying on the freeway the other day and when I drove this car before I remember the transmission sounding terrible so I'm sure the shop that did it simply swapped again. The shop is kinda scandalous so I know they probably kept his old stuff knowing the value of it and then didn't remind him to get them back or neglected to mention they were available. I didn't try first gear I'm so used to driving non-synchro stuff that I usually don't downshift to first while rolling ever haha

[JoePolo]

Picked this up tonight 5 minutes from my house for $200 it spins so I think I did okay? I haven't run the numbers yet but guy who sold it said it was March 1955.

[motofly196]

I think it's great that you are hunting down original parts for your oval. Just know that when you get the split case trans and a 36hp engine fitted back in the car, you won't be "flying down the freeway" anymore!
If this is a daily driver car, I strongly recommend you get that transmission rebuilt.

[tasb]

I guess it depends upon what you consider "flying". A 36 hp Beetle will do 60 mph all day long if it's in good tune. The transmissions are among some of the most robust in automotive history.
_________________
Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018

1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc

1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse

[motofly196]

That's true! But having driven on freeways in CA, I know that at 60mph even in the slow lane....you are in everybody's way. Even the electric and smart cars way!
I don't hesitate buying split case transmissions anymore. I have pretty good luck with them working. But in a daily driver I would probably have it checked out so I'm not constantly late for work.

[tasb]

I drive SoCal freeways frequently in my 36 hp VW's. As long as I am in the slow lane I'm fine, others seem to enjoy seeing "the old guy in the old car" as they go by most of the time they are pretty respectful. Now the two lanes in the mountains is another story because they can't get around me until I use a turn out.

Motorfly196- your first advice was to just have the transmission rebuilt. I agree with having it "inspected", drive it and if it's not broke you don't need to fix it.
_________________
Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018

1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc

1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse

[JoePolo]

Thanks for the reply guys, yah I was definitely going to open up the trans if it goes back in. However I still need to track down an engine. I may leave the current running gear in the car for now then once it develops a large issue which I’m sure it will knowing the Shop which installed it. Then I’ll do the swap back to the original.

[motofly196]

That's a good plan, just enjoy it for now. When you feel pressured to buy parts, you'll take whatever you can find. When you've got time, you can be picky on what you really need or want. There have been quite a few complete running 36hp engines listed recently. That's the best way to buy them. All those little missing pieces add up on the bill!

[JoePolo]

Yah motofly I’m getting married this weekend then heading to honeymoon in Europe so parts buying is definitely on hold for a while haha I got the split case I believe it date codes to a 1955 so not 100% correct for my 57 but was local and cheap so I snagged it up. Thanks for the words of wisdom.