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trythis Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016 Posts: 145 Location: St Louis MO
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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:10 am Post subject: Re: Our 1970 SB Project - Laverne |
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Donnie strickland wrote: |
Usually Type 3 A/C is mounted on the right. As you know, you'll have to make additional holes in the fan housing for the compressor belt, and where your compressor is mounted the holes will be right over the upper heat exchanger, pulling hot air into the shroud. How much difference that will make, I don't know. |
Thanks for the feedback!
Couldn't mount it on the other side because of the air intake. This one is fuel injected and no room with air cleaner with this style of compressor. I went with an sd7 style for the size and efficiency. The holes are already in the shroud. If you look at the 3rd photo you can see I made a plate that covers a large hole for mounting the belt to minimize the hot air. Once the belt is in I plan some rubber covers to reduce this further. I also reduced the opening in the shroud where the generator pulley was much larger than the alternator's. _________________ Laverne, our Squareback project:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=664462 |
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Donnie strickland Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009 Posts: 2403 Location: Moody, AL
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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Our 1970 SB Project - Laverne |
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A/C was used on the FI cars (mine used to have it), but there were a couple of special pieces needed. One was a rubber adapter ring that fit between the upper and lower halves of the air cleaner to re-point the intake, and the other was an S-shaped rubber duct that connected to the cool air intake. The engine in this pic is missing the S duct:
There was another setup that mounted the compressor on the left like yours, but it ran the compressor belt off the generator, which had a double-groove pulley. I don't have a picture of that one, but you've got the right idea. _________________ 71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback |
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trythis Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016 Posts: 145 Location: St Louis MO
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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: Our 1970 SB Project - Laverne |
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Donnie strickland wrote: |
A/C was used on the FI cars (mine used to have it), but there were a couple of special pieces needed. One was a rubber adapter ring that fit between the upper and lower halves of the air cleaner to re-point the intake, and the other was an S-shaped rubber duct that connected to the cool air intake. The engine in this pic is missing the S duct:
There was another setup that mounted the compressor on the left like yours, but it ran the compressor belt off the generator, which had a double-groove pulley. I don't have a picture of that one, but you've got the right idea. |
I had seen the original style of compressor but from what I read the older style were horse power hogs compared to the sd5 and sd7 sanden style compressors. I was also concerned that I would never be able to scrounge up the air intake parts I needed. I considered the dual pulley on the alternator. but my car already had the AC pulley so I went with that.
I may cobble an extra heat shield for the heat exchanger you mentioned. _________________ Laverne, our Squareback project:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=664462 |
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Donnie strickland Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009 Posts: 2403 Location: Moody, AL
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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: Our 1970 SB Project - Laverne |
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That's right, plus the newer compressors are lighter, which is better for mounting purposes. _________________ 71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback |
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trythis Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016 Posts: 145 Location: St Louis MO
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: Our 1970 SB Project - Laverne |
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Finally got engine back in. Now has a complete cooling flaps system, alternator conversion, AC compressor and several transmission gaskets replaced. New CV joints all around, and some new heater tubes. It all fits OK, so far.. I did have to trim the upper compressor mount, which could have been much shorter. (picture from before trimming.)
You cans see where I scratched the crap out of the engine compartment. ITs a tight fit, but has plenty of clearance once in. I could have used a smaller belt and had more room. The real pain is that I will probably have to drop the engine to change the belt due to clearance around the AC pulley, means I have to remove the shroud, and that means removing the exhaust system....
The next pictures are of the condenser and fans above the transmission, which fits great, its a 12 x 20 with dual Spal pull fans that use just under 9 amps max.
And the alternator conversion wiring which I hope is right! One of the red wires had an extra wire factory crimped to an inline fuse. I didn't want to change anything in case a future owner wants to go back the a regulator. To do this I made a little copper terminal block that would work with two heavy spades and a ring terminal, heat shrinked it all and wrapped in some HDPE palstic.
The last one got the same treatment as the first, just posting in case one of you will catch a mistake. _________________ Laverne, our Squareback project:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=664462 |
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trythis Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016 Posts: 145 Location: St Louis MO
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Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: Our 1970 SB Project - Laverne |
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More photos:
This time its rear seat belts, as in retractable three point!
I used a 7 inch by 2.5 inch 3/16 thick steel plate under the wheel well. Sorry the focus is wrong...
_________________ Laverne, our Squareback project:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=664462 |
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trythis Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016 Posts: 145 Location: St Louis MO
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Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:37 pm Post subject: Re: Our 1970 SB Project - Laverne |
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Anyone wanna see more updates?
Speakers:
I needed something fast and cheap and easy. We are not HI-FI enthusiasts, just needed something that would work with the new modern radio. I bought some decent 4" speakers and had some 4 inch PVC fittings that I cut short, inserted a piece of 4" tube flush fit. Mounted a hammered chuck of aluminum to the back and screwed them to the wheel wells. I felt a little bad adding more holes, but this things firewall is riddled. I think it once had a heater or an AC unit.
Next is the stereo, a Pioneer MVH-X390BT. Nothing special but small and lightweight without an overwhelming amount of flashy lights. OUr square came with a Sapphire XII but it doesnt work.
AC evaporator is also installed. I tried out the new evaporator made by Gilmore. Its expensive but available! It comes with solid blank radio face plate which is great because I didn't have to chop up the original. The fit is pretty decent underneath, I had to melt and bend a few places because the 1970 dash is a bit different than what they designed it for. BTW, it just wont fit on newer cars with the vent fans. I am going to have to reroute the vent drain tubes because they will not fit between the dash and the blower set.
The last part (aside from all the hoses) of the AC system was the dryer.
I parked this between the spare tire bowl(?) and the gas tank. I am using a horizontal style because I couldn't find a good place to mount a vertical one. I see lots of people using the wheel wells, but I just thought that would be a mess if we ever end up driving in a surprise snow storm. I wouldn't drive this if I expected one... _________________ Laverne, our Squareback project:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=664462 |
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trythis Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016 Posts: 145 Location: St Louis MO
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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:21 am Post subject: Re: Our 1970 SB Project - Laverne |
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Just figured out looking at some other threads that I have no fuel pump relay. I have no idea how they bypassed it but I assume that would be running all that amperage through my ignition switch or something. Sheesh.
Should I order an old used one or buy a new one? Do these fail a lot? _________________ Laverne, our Squareback project:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=664462 |
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Donnie strickland Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009 Posts: 2403 Location: Moody, AL
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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:58 am Post subject: Re: Our 1970 SB Project - Laverne |
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Where is the pump getting power from? _________________ 71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback |
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trythis Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016 Posts: 145 Location: St Louis MO
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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:21 am Post subject: Re: Our 1970 SB Project - Laverne |
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It was connected to the 6th fuse from the right rather than the 2nd and grounded under the dash. _________________ Laverne, our Squareback project:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=664462 |
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Donnie strickland Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009 Posts: 2403 Location: Moody, AL
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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:28 am Post subject: Re: Our 1970 SB Project - Laverne |
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Well.
Can you see any of the original relay wiring under the dash? _________________ 71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback |
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trythis Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016 Posts: 145 Location: St Louis MO
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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:37 am Post subject: Re: Our 1970 SB Project - Laverne |
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Donnie strickland wrote: |
Well.
Can you see any of the original relay wiring under the dash? |
Well.
Yes, well...
So I found the original wiring, the plug that connects to 85-86 on the fuel pump relay (FPR) the red and brown wires to the pump.
I attempted to hook up a functional relay I found and connected the ground wire to the chasis, Red wire from pump to the FPR at 87. The 85 connector goes to the white wire (#19) and the 86 (blue and white wire) Voltage Supply Relay (VSR)
The VSR power appears wired correctly, also bench tested good
Could this be a bad ignition contact on #15? _________________ Laverne, our Squareback project:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=664462 |
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trythis Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016 Posts: 145 Location: St Louis MO
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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:31 am Post subject: Re: Our 1970 SB Project - Laverne |
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trythis wrote: |
Could this be a bad ignition contact on #15? |
I don't think so, I am getting continuity across the VSR when the ignition is on. _________________ Laverne, our Squareback project:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=664462 |
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Donnie strickland Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009 Posts: 2403 Location: Moody, AL
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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:33 am Post subject: Re: Our 1970 SB Project - Laverne |
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The fuel pump relay isn't connected to #15. It gets constant power from the red fuse 4th from right in the fusebox (at least on a 71 it does; I'd expect the 70 system to be the same since they're both "C" systems). But it won't operate continuously until it gets its signal from the ECU -- via the white wire-- that the engine is turning. This way it won't pump fuel if the car is in an accident and the engine quits. Instead, it gets powered for 1.5 seconds when you turn the key on, and then waits for the ECU to get the signal from the trigger contacts that the engine is turning.
Here's the relay:
_________________ 71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback |
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trythis Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016 Posts: 145 Location: St Louis MO
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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: Our 1970 SB Project - Laverne |
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I dont have one of those, but the #15 contact is connected to the Voltage Supply relay under the back seat. I was looking at the 69 diagram and the 70 and the Voltage supply relay uses #15 for its power coil. That is working on mine after a test. So that is not the issue.
I am not sure about the fuel wiring diagram, shows teh 30/51 terminal on the relay going to the P and 30 fuses? missing a wire here I think. _________________ Laverne, our Squareback project:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=664462 |
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trythis Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016 Posts: 145 Location: St Louis MO
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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Our 1970 SB Project - Laverne |
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I think it must be a bad Voltage supply relay. I am getting resistance across 30/51 and 87 or 85.
This is preventing my replacement fuel pump relay from getting voltage across its coil. _________________ Laverne, our Squareback project:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=664462 |
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Donnie strickland Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009 Posts: 2403 Location: Moody, AL
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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:36 pm Post subject: Re: Our 1970 SB Project - Laverne |
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Remember, the fuel pump relay gets grounded by the white wire going to the ECU, so it won't put out any power until then. _________________ 71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback |
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trythis Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016 Posts: 145 Location: St Louis MO
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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: Our 1970 SB Project - Laverne |
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OK, so I bypassed this relay as the PO had done and I am not getting power across the fuel pump relay plug (white and blue and white wires) while the engine is running and it wont start with the relay in line.
Look at the bottom, do you see the pump relay? Notice 2 wires coming from 30/51? One goes to what must be the fuse box, the other goes to "P" What is "P"? _________________ Laverne, our Squareback project:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=664462 |
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trythis Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016 Posts: 145 Location: St Louis MO
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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: Our 1970 SB Project - Laverne |
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Looking at the other diagrams that reference this mystery.
#11 is where the fuel pump is connected, presumably this connects to the relay, not the pump directly as mine is. Not seeing anything labelled P that corresponds with the previous post.
It looks like J17 off the #11 fuse is hte fuel pump relay, but that is it.
Until I figure out why I cant get power to the fuel pump relay, I am stuck. The wiring connector labeled as #20 in the last post is all new connections, so that shouldn't be the problem. _________________ Laverne, our Squareback project:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=664462 |
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trythis Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016 Posts: 145 Location: St Louis MO
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Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: Our 1970 SB Project - Laverne |
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Donnie strickland wrote: |
Remember, the fuel pump relay gets grounded by the white wire going to the ECU, so it won't put out any power until then. |
Grounded out the #19 wire by the engine to mimic what the ECU should do but this did not work.
_________________ Laverne, our Squareback project:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=664462 |
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