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hazetguy
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2001
Posts: 10773
Location: iT StiNgeD iTseLf tO dEAd
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 Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: Bus Center Pin Replacement (Long, MANY pics) |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| Sure on a lift, great, but jack stands are not going to be enough room to get a real good swing at it. |
 see post 1 in this thread. bus on jackstands, using driver to install bushings. they can be seen in several pics. tall jackstands, not teeny tiny ones.
| Eric&Barb wrote: |
Even then you have to swing uphill, with crap falling in your face.. Again a puller is a lot easier and less cursing. |
hammers only work in one direction?
you get dirt and crap in your face when working under vehicles.
how about doing a detailed write up about your puller method. thanks.
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hazetguy: invested?
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:11 pm Post subject: Re: Bus Center Pin Replacement (Long, MANY pics) |
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| hazetguy wrote: |
hammers only work in one direction?
you get dirt and crap in your face when working under vehicles.
how about doing a detailed write up about your puller method. thanks. |
They work in all directions, but uphill is up hill, just like pushing a car uphill is a lot harder than pushing it down hill.
One gets stuff falling when working under, it is just that you get way way more when hammering. Same reason folks build rotisseries to clean, de-rust, and paint the undersides of these old volks, without having to work with stuff falling on one.
Sure! Will see about the next time and post it up.
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Longboardluv
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2014
Posts: 934
Location: Austin TX
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: Bus Center Pin Replacement (Long, MANY pics) |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| hazetguy wrote: |
this is untrue. jack the bus up, put it on jackstands, lots of room. and if you have, or have access to a lift, there is PLENTY of room. |
Sure on a lift, great, but jack stands are not going to be enough room to get a real good swing at it.
Even then you have to swing uphill, with crap falling in your face.. Again a puller is a lot easier and less cursing. |
False, I just used this awesome thread to learn how and replace my center pin under the bus! Proof on my build thread(link below). I encourage anyone who wants to do it to do it under the bus
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...;start=340 |
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BJ1
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2011
Posts: 17
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:47 am Post subject: Re: Bus Center Pin Replacement (Long, MANY pics) |
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Now for something different! I was sold a late split beam very cheaply because the owner couldn't remove the swivel pin. When I picked it up, this unusual pin greeted me!
The pin was overlong and seemed to have two large lock nuts on the bottom. After a 5 minute fight involving two large wrenches this little number emerged!
Here's the extracted pin alongside a stock pin.
First thing to notice is that the pin diameter is smaller than stock and has a cone-shaped shoulder at the top. This fits into a tapered brass bearing inserted into the place where the normal top bearing sits. Like this:
The bottom of the pin is threaded and has two large lock nuts, the top one has a slight taper and fits into a much smaller taper in the bottom brass bearing sleeve on the beam. So here we have an adjustable swivel pin, that adjusts rather like a bicycle wheel axle. In 40 years of VW ownership, I've never seen one like it. I'm not convinced that it's good engineering as all the thrust is taken on the top tapered bearing, but the principle is sound and it works! Was this once commercially available or is it a one-off? I'd be interested in the hazetguy's views. |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:57 am Post subject: Re: Bus Center Pin Replacement (Long, MANY pics) |
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Pretty sure the tapered center pin was a VW of Brazil design.
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BJ1
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2011
Posts: 17
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:16 pm Post subject: Re: Bus Center Pin Replacement (Long, MANY pics) |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| Pretty sure the tapered center pin was a VW of Brazil design. |
Now that might explain my having not seen it! I confess I've never really looked at Brazilian beams. Were these pins on splits and bays or just splits?
Thanks for the info. |
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hazetguy
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2001
Posts: 10773
Location: iT StiNgeD iTseLf tO dEAd
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: Bus Center Pin Replacement (Long, MANY pics) |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| Pretty sure the tapered center pin was a VW of Brazil design. |
any documentation or pictures to confirm this? never have seen this before.
looks home-made and cheesy. plus it adds a good inch or more to the bottom of the pin, diminishing ground clearance? not sure why VW Brasil would do such a thing considering the poor roads in that general part of the world.
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thebucket: I invested in hoodride, now DBD won't return my call?
hazetguy: invested?
thebucket: Yeah Haze, its where people put money into a company in hopes of a return on their money
Last edited by hazetguy on Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Bus Center Pin Replacement (Long, MANY pics) |
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| BJ1 wrote: |
Now that might explain my having not seen it! I confess I've never really looked at Brazilian beams. Were these pins on splits and bays or just splits?
Thanks for the info. |
Good question. Do keep in mind that they were making splits as late as 1975. So easily could have been a part that came out after VAG stopped making splits in 1967. Not sure when that part came out, but the Brazilian 1500 bus parts manual on this website shows the German designed center pin. Of course that manual might have not been updated as thoroughly as VAG would have done.
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: Bus Center Pin Replacement (Long, MANY pics) |
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| hazetguy wrote: |
| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| Pretty sure the tapered center pin was a VW of Brazil design. |
any documentation or pictures to confirm this? never have seen this before.
looks home-made and cheesy. plus it adds a good inch or more to the bottom of the pin, diminishing ground clearance? not sure why VW Brasil would do such a thing considering the poor roads in that general part of the world. |
Here is a little more info on them from the gallery search for center pin.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php?search_id=gallerypic&search_keywords=995861
Maybe it was an aftermarket Brazil part, like lowered suspension parts today made in the USA. Just can say that now have seen at least three examples...
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MicBergsma
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2015
Posts: 222
Location: Maui Hawaii
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:17 pm Post subject: Re: Bus Center Pin Replacement (Long, MANY pics) |
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I couldn't find the answer ... I flattened the new lock tab and is it ok to reuse?
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BJ1
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2011
Posts: 17
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:39 am Post subject: Re: Bus Center Pin Replacement (Long, MANY pics) |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| hazetguy wrote: |
| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| Pretty sure the tapered center pin was a VW of Brazil design. |
any documentation or pictures to confirm this? never have seen this before.
looks home-made and cheesy. plus it adds a good inch or more to the bottom of the pin, diminishing ground clearance? not sure why VW Brasil would do such a thing considering the poor roads in that general part of the world. |
Here is a little more info on them from the gallery search for center pin.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php?search_id=gallerypic&search_keywords=995861
Maybe it was an aftermarket Brazil part, like lowered suspension parts today made in the USA. Just can say that now have seen at least three examples... |
The pin illustrated in "frozenbutt" 's post is very similar to the one I have but far better engineered - it's how I would have made one! Great idea to have proper bearings top and bottom, but as Jon Hazetguy says, it adds over an inch to the pin at the bottom, reducing ground clearance. Where did frozenbutt (great user name for a Canadian!) get the pic? |
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Friedpotatoes
Addicted4life
Joined: April 04, 2003
Posts: 1215
Location: Fresno California
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:31 pm Post subject: Re: Bus Center Pin Replacement (Long, MANY pics) |
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The question I have is two times it was mentioned in this thread about a off brand kit having non brass bushings that were already to size/that Bay buses use bushing that do not need to be deemed . Does anyone have more info on that ? I assume its a steer clear from that.
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tisius
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2011
Posts: 1570
Location: Rotterdam,NL (+Chicago,IL)
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| splitpile wrote: |
| chrisflstf wrote: |
Chucking reamers dont have the taper built into them that a hand reamer does. Makes starting/aligning the reamer more difficult, since it was designed to be mounted in a machine.
Also curious about using the spiral reamer also - Any Machinists want to comment?
I read yesterday that reamers should never be turned backwards when removing (unlike a Tap). They should be turned CW and pulled back at the same time. Turning them CCW dulls the cutting edges |
The straight flute reamer draws itself through very nicely, doesn't want to feed as fast as a spiral flute reamer |
OK, so a straight hand-reamer is better than a spiral hand-reamer.
Unfortunately, all the hand-reamers they sell in over here the Netherlands seem to be spiral hand-reamers. I haven't come across a 24 mm straight hand-reamer yet.
I found this one:
https://www.mzsgereedschap.nl/hss-handruimer-h7-artikelgroep-51110.html?id=130891718&quantity=1
So did anyone use a spiral hand-reamer to do the job?
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you don't have to be crazy to be into VW's, but it sure helps!!
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Friedpotatoes
Addicted4life
Joined: April 04, 2003
Posts: 1215
Location: Fresno California
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:04 am Post subject: Re: Bus Center Pin Replacement (Long, MANY pics) |
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That’s the style I used and it worked out for me !
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57- Oval Window Bug (Agave Green) |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| tisius wrote: |
So did anyone use a spiral hand-reamer to do the job? |
Try searching for an "adjustable reamer with guide" or "adjustable reamer with pilot".
Personally prefer the adjustable reamer so the hole can be fitted tighter to the pin if it is slightly undersized or slightly bigger hole if having plated the pin for rust proofing.
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tisius
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2011
Posts: 1570
Location: Rotterdam,NL (+Chicago,IL)
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:45 am Post subject: Re: Bus Center Pin Replacement (Long, MANY pics) |
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Thanks guys for the quick response!
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drive it like you just robbed the bank
you don't have to be crazy to be into VW's, but it sure helps!!
.... if it ain't dutch, it ain't much! |
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chrisflstf
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 3446
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: Bus Center Pin Replacement (Long, MANY pics) |
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| I find adjustable reamers to be difficult to get setup to the correct size. Rather use something the right size from the get go |
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62DoKaGuy
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2011
Posts: 1276
Location: Surprise, AZ
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| tisius wrote: |
| splitpile wrote: |
| chrisflstf wrote: |
Chucking reamers dont have the taper built into them that a hand reamer does. Makes starting/aligning the reamer more difficult, since it was designed to be mounted in a machine.
Also curious about using the spiral reamer also - Any Machinists want to comment?
I read yesterday that reamers should never be turned backwards when removing (unlike a Tap). They should be turned CW and pulled back at the same time. Turning them CCW dulls the cutting edges |
The straight flute reamer draws itself through very nicely, doesn't want to feed as fast as a spiral flute reamer |
OK, so a straight hand-reamer is better than a spiral hand-reamer.
Unfortunately, all the hand-reamers they sell in over here the Netherlands seem to be spiral hand-reamers. I haven't come across a 24 mm straight hand-reamer yet.
I found this one:
https://www.mzsgereedschap.nl/hss-handruimer-h7-artikelgroep-51110.html?id=130891718&quantity=1
So did anyone use a spiral hand-reamer to do the job? |
Have you considered borrowing one from anyone local, even a VW shop? Kieft en Klok might have one to borrow/rent out.
I bought one off of jogr a while back, if I remember correctly. I think he's out of stock, though: https://jogrusa.com/products/24mm-straight-flute-hand-reamer?variant=315455431
$100 is pretty pricey, but it is not adjustable and saved me the headache. I would still try to borrow/rent one from someone, since you wouldn't use but once in a blue moon. Cheers.
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| EverettB wrote: |
| ...I went at it from both ends but going from the rear didn't seem to do anything, although I did spray some rust breaker in there... |
4/62 Double Cab
5/61 Panel (sold)
4/59 Single Cab (sold) |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: Bus Center Pin Replacement (Long, MANY pics) |
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| chrisflstf wrote: |
| I find adjustable reamers to be difficult to get setup to the correct size. Rather use something the right size from the get go |
Guess we have had better luck with them or perhaps better quality adjustable reamer. Just need to start a little small, and use small adjustments up in size till the pin slides in. Takes maybe three runs of the reamer thru to get just right.
Did forget to mention last time that the bevel on the tip of the pin often results in a bit of mushroom there increasing the diameter just there. So best to fine file that area or even a bit of sandpaper to knock that edge off.
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Thompson2
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2018
Posts: 659
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Bus Center Pin Replacement (Long, MANY pics) |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| chrisflstf wrote: |
| I find adjustable reamers to be difficult to get setup to the correct size. Rather use something the right size from the get go |
Guess we have had better luck with them or perhaps better quality adjustable reamer. Just need to start a little small, and use small adjustments up in size till the pin slides in. Takes maybe three runs of the reamer thru to get just right. |
I had great luck with an adjustable reamer. I didn't bother to attempt to set it to the correct size beforehand. I just started small and snuck up on it. I think the three shots E&B mentioned seems in the right ballpark. I'd rather have it take 6 tries and be exactly right rather than rushing at all and overshooting. It's really tough to put that bronze back in.  |
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